Fireside Chat w/Mike Fabrico, vCISO @ Horizon3.ai

[00:00:00] Mike. [00:00:05] Hey Tomas, how are you sir? [00:00:08] I'm doing alright, you beat me to it. [00:00:10] Oh I'm sorry, you know, I never used this before. [00:00:14] Don't worry about it, don't worry about it, you're good. [00:00:17] So microphone sounds good, I hear you loud and clear, hey Russell. [00:00:21] So I just need you to do one quick thing. [00:00:24] So click on my face and make me a moderator. [00:00:27] There you go, alright, sounds good. [00:00:33] I'll handle everything else from there. [00:00:35] You just be great and be awesome. [00:00:39] So thanks for, thanks everybody who's just making their way in. [00:00:44] We'll get started promptly at 8pm Eastern time. [00:00:46] Russell, quick microphone check for you sir. [00:00:49] Tomas, good evening Mike. [00:00:51] I'm so excited to hear and learn from you this evening. [00:00:54] Hey Russell, how are you? [00:00:56] Oh I'm living the dream. [00:00:58] Absolutely living the dream. [00:01:00] Awesome. [00:01:01] So I'm just doing some quick logistics in the background. [00:01:05] Don't mind me. [00:01:07] I'm trying to get the little links going. [00:01:12] What are we here to talk about? [00:01:14] Let's see. [00:01:15] We're going to do some networking today. [00:01:17] Talk about some leadership. [00:01:19] I'm really interested in hearing about you, Mike, and your background. [00:01:23] So it should be fun and open dialogue. [00:01:28] Oh, who wants to pop up on stage already? [00:01:31] Oh, nobody. [00:01:32] Okay. [00:01:33] Thought I saw a hand raised there. [00:01:34] So we'll open up for questions and people to jump up on stage about 30 to 45 minutes or so. [00:01:39] So if you could just hang tight. [00:01:42] Yeah, no problem. [00:01:43] Until we get to it. [00:01:45] That was for the audience, Mike. [00:01:47] Yeah. [00:01:48] No worries. [00:01:49] No worries. [00:01:50] You know, Tomas, I've learned that, you know, the room orchestrator, I think is a name, works really well. [00:01:56] But if you schedule a room, you can't do all that stuff before the room starts. [00:02:01] I know you're setting up the room, getting everything going. [00:02:03] And hopefully a future Clubhouse update will let you do some setup before actually having to go live for scheduled rooms. [00:02:10] I agree with you, Russell. [00:02:12] It would actually be so much easier if that was allowed, if that was able to be done. [00:02:19] Because then we could just jump right in and have a conversation and I've got to spend time adding a link. [00:02:24] So people know who is Mike, if they want to look him up on LinkedIn or even the topics or anything like that. [00:02:30] So all that stuff is done. [00:02:33] What I do want to do is turn on, which is that new feature, turn on chat. [00:02:38] Let me get to that. [00:02:40] Hang on. [00:02:41] Where is that option? [00:02:42] There it is. [00:02:46] Allow them to do chat. [00:02:47] Oh, they have show captions. [00:02:49] That's interesting. [00:02:50] Let's see how that works. [00:02:51] Yeah. [00:02:52] Wow. [00:02:53] They're making some changes here. [00:02:57] All right, Ryan. [00:02:58] You let Ryan up? [00:02:59] Yeah. [00:03:00] We'll let it up for two minutes. [00:03:02] Hey, Ryan. [00:03:03] Hey, I just wanted to say I've been using captions for like the last week or here. [00:03:07] A game changer. [00:03:08] So totally recommend them. [00:03:10] I just heard you say, oh, look at the captions. [00:03:12] I also saw that you can clip stuff. [00:03:14] I don't know if anyone's ever done that. [00:03:16] I probably would want to clip all of it, but apparently you can clip like 30 seconds of someone quoting. [00:03:23] So just wanted to share that. [00:03:26] But yeah, definitely recommend the captions. [00:03:29] Yeah. [00:03:30] I like the captions. [00:03:31] Now, when I turn that on, I guess it turns it on for everybody. [00:03:33] Right. [00:03:34] It's not just me. [00:03:35] I don't think so, because I've been using it. [00:03:37] I used it last week and I'm pretty sure I used it the week before. [00:03:40] And I also used it with Russell yesterday and last week as well. [00:03:44] It is an interesting thing. [00:03:45] When I talk, I don't actually see the captions, but when other people talk, I see their captions. [00:03:50] So that is great. [00:03:51] I don't have to read myself. [00:03:53] I don't have to read what I'm saying. [00:03:55] It's awesome. [00:03:56] But it would be nice to know if it caught me correctly. [00:03:59] Hey, Lisa Beth, how are you? [00:04:00] Hey, hey. [00:04:01] How are you this evening? [00:04:03] Doing all right. [00:04:04] So Ryan, I'm just going to move you back down because we're going to get started. [00:04:07] But I do appreciate you being here. [00:04:09] And I'm sure you pop up on stage to ask a question shortly. [00:04:13] Katie, microphone check for you. [00:04:15] How are you? [00:04:16] Hi, good evening. [00:04:17] I'm good. [00:04:18] Awesome. [00:04:19] And the captions seem to pick that up and it works. [00:04:22] The only thing, it overlays on people. [00:04:24] So you've got to kind of scroll up and down. [00:04:27] Anyways, sorry that I feel like a clubhouse newbie, but there's just a lot of new features [00:04:33] that are being added to this app, which is pretty awesome, pretty exciting. [00:04:39] So if it's the first time you've joined us this evening, it is 8 p.m. Eastern time. [00:04:44] So we'll get started promptly. [00:04:45] If it's the first time you've joined us this weekend, this is our weekly fireside chat. [00:04:50] I don't know why I just drew a blank. [00:04:56] But this is our weekly fireside chat. [00:04:58] Hey, Anir, good to see you, Hussain. [00:05:00] And we do this every Wednesday between 8 p.m. Eastern time and 9.30 p.m. Eastern time. [00:05:07] We'll ask our guests questions for about 30 to 45 minutes or so. [00:05:11] And then we'll open up for the audience to sort of pop up on stage and ask questions. [00:05:15] So we ask you to just hang tight, bear with us as we get through the sort of the meat of the conversation. [00:05:22] And then we'll open up and let you pop up on stage and join the conversation. [00:05:26] But we do have room chat enabled. [00:05:29] So if you do want to sort of have a conversation in that sort of I'll call it back channel, but it's not really a back channel. [00:05:35] That front channel, if you will, through that room chat. [00:05:38] Feel free to type in there. [00:05:40] You can ask questions in there as well. [00:05:41] If you don't want to pop up on stage, you can use that. [00:05:44] Feel free to also share this. [00:05:46] And if you like anyone on stage, if you like what they have to say and you want to follow them, obviously we encourage you to do so, so that you can see when they are talking. [00:05:56] So you can follow them either on LinkedIn or follow them on the Clubhouse Firesight Chat group or in general. [00:06:04] So there's a little greenhouse on the top left of your screen where it does say Firesight Chat. [00:06:08] If you're not a member of the chat, click that and you can join as we do this every Wednesday and you'll be able to be alerted and add that to your calendar and you can see our future guests. [00:06:18] And you can also look at the prior or listen to the prior replays. [00:06:22] So just a quick ground rules, if you will. [00:06:25] Let's have fun. [00:06:26] We'd have a good evening this evening. [00:06:27] We've got Mike joining us. [00:06:28] I know Mike is Mike. [00:06:29] You and I have been trying to connect. [00:06:31] I'll say one on one for a while. [00:06:33] So let's just say this is a one on one conversation. [00:06:36] It's just I invited everybody here to to listen to a one on conversation, but it's going to be it's going to be great. [00:06:42] So let's have fun. [00:06:44] Let's have a good evening. [00:06:45] This is Wednesday. [00:06:46] It's been a long week. [00:06:47] Some of us are going through different sort of things in our in our day life. [00:06:51] Let's use this as a de-stressor moment, if you will. [00:06:54] So in that vein, if you are a vendor on stage or you pop up on stage or in the audience and you do come up with a video, [00:07:02] if you want to sort of sell us on your product or your solution, we'll ask that. [00:07:07] Why don't you save that for another time? [00:07:09] Come back to us and a different sort of for in a different form, not today to sell us on your latest and greatest solution. [00:07:16] Today, we really want to spend some time getting to know Mike, learning about his origin story, really sort of understanding how he became who he is and his sort of journey to where he is today. [00:07:28] So if we think about it from that aspect, it'll be probably an enjoyable conversation. [00:07:34] There'll be some leadership advice, some good mentoring gems, if you will, that you can take away. [00:07:39] So just keep that in mind. [00:07:41] And then for the majority of us, our comments and opinions are our own and not represent our current or prior employer. [00:07:48] So just also please keep that in mind. [00:07:51] So, Mike, I'm going to go around the room. [00:07:53] I'm going to introduce we're going to introduce ourselves. [00:07:55] We'll leave you for last. [00:07:56] So I'm Tomas Maldonado. [00:07:57] I'm the CISO for the NFL. [00:07:59] Russell, over to you. [00:08:01] Hey, Tomas, always great to be here. [00:08:03] And as Tomas said, great encouragement to put on your schedule every Wednesday night from 8 to 9.30 p.m. Eastern Time. [00:08:10] Always a phenomenal conversation tonight. [00:08:12] Will be no different. [00:08:13] Russell, you thanks former CISO for the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta. [00:08:16] Last couple of years been running my company, Security Ever After. [00:08:20] Katie, over to you. [00:08:22] Hi, everyone. [00:08:23] Good evening. [00:08:24] I'm Katie Hanahan. [00:08:25] I am the VC. [00:08:26] So and VP of Cybersecurity Strategy for IT Savvy as boutique system integrator out of the [00:08:33] Chicago. [00:08:34] Lisa Beth, over to you. [00:08:36] Hello. [00:08:37] Hello, everyone. [00:08:38] My name is Lisa Beth Lentini Walker. [00:08:40] I'm the CEO of Lumen Worldwide Endeavors, which is a compliance ethics and corporate governance consulting firm. [00:08:46] I teach law school in the United States and in Europe. [00:08:49] And I'm also an author. [00:08:51] And I'm just excited to be here tonight with Mike. [00:08:53] Over to you, Hussein. [00:08:55] Good evening. [00:08:56] Good evening, Michael, as well. [00:08:57] Welcome to the Fireside Chat. [00:08:59] My name is Hussein Syed. [00:09:01] I'm the CISO at RWJ Barnabas Health here in New Jersey. [00:09:06] Over to you, Anil. [00:09:08] Thanks, Hussein. [00:09:10] This is Anil Varghese. [00:09:12] I am currently serving as a VCISO for two firms and a former five-time CISO across various industries. [00:09:19] Back to you, Jonas. [00:09:21] Sounds good. [00:09:22] I'm just looking at this at the closed caption when we say CISO. [00:09:26] It puts it as C-I-C-O instead of C-I-S-O. [00:09:29] So that's interesting. [00:09:30] I wonder if we say CISO, will it spell it correctly? [00:09:33] But anyways, aside from me having fun with the closed caption. [00:09:36] Sorry, Katie. [00:09:37] Go ahead. [00:09:38] Oh, I was going to try it. [00:09:39] What did you say if we say CISO? [00:09:41] How did it? [00:09:42] Yeah, no, if it says CISO, it shows up S-I-S-S-O. [00:09:46] Oh, interesting. [00:09:47] Well, I just thought I'd give it a try. [00:09:49] I like new toys, you know. [00:09:51] I'm a nerd. [00:09:52] Sorry. [00:09:53] I wonder if we could do, if we can, if there's any programmers in the room and can you do a SQL injection through the closed caption or some sort of, anyways, let me stop. [00:10:02] I'll take off my, I'll leave my white hat on and take off any sort of black or gray hat. [00:10:07] Anyways, Mike, thanks for joining us this evening. [00:10:10] We're happy to have you. [00:10:12] Like I said, you and I have been trying to connect for quite some time now. [00:10:15] So I invited you to our fireside chat to really have a conversation, you know, so why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience? [00:10:22] Sure. [00:10:23] Hey, first of all, thank you. [00:10:24] I appreciate it. [00:10:25] And I think the last time I saw you, Tomas, I was in the shark tank with you and Hussain and a number of other peers as well, too. [00:10:31] In New York City pre-COVID. [00:10:34] So it feels like a long time. [00:10:36] And this is my first time actually on Clubhouse. [00:10:40] I was invited by my friend, Michelle, a few years ago, but never had the opportunity. [00:10:45] I think I see stuff popping up. [00:10:47] Anyway, I appreciate the time. [00:10:49] Thanks everybody. [00:10:50] I'm Mike Fabrico. [00:10:51] I'm the virtual CISO at a new startup in the autonomous security space called Horizon 3 AI. [00:10:58] A little background, how I, you know, if I think about how I got my start years ago, I grew up in New York City in a small borough called the Bronx. [00:11:06] I was born and raised there. [00:11:08] And my father was driving, chauffeuring livery cabs back in the day. [00:11:15] And he happened to be the driver for the CEO and the CMO of a very large bulletin board service called Prodigy. [00:11:22] So it's funny, my father is driving the woman who created the star. [00:11:27] If anybody remembers Prodigy BBS along with CompuServe and America Online in those days. [00:11:34] It's very interesting. [00:11:35] So the question came up as my father was driving her to the airport from White Plains, New York, into JFK, asking if we have a computer at home. [00:11:46] My father's like, no, we don't. [00:11:47] And started doing a little research, getting into like Tandy computers and things like that. [00:11:55] And we wound up getting a lifetime subscription to Prodigy at that time. [00:12:01] So I was young and I enjoyed it. [00:12:03] And I started dabbling in on BBSs and then I wanted to run my own BBS and started writing code on a Commodore 64 for Vision BBS. [00:12:14] And to think about a mail server at 720K today is like, you know, but for an 11 year old kid growing up in the city and trying to understand how things work in communication. [00:12:29] And I started looking at 900 megahertz surfing because I was finding documents on BBSs that I was downloading. [00:12:36] And then I was looking at voicemail boxes and pages at that time. [00:12:41] And I lived again in the city and you had some large hospitals. [00:12:44] So interesting what you could pick up on the airwaves or something with the code one, two, three, four on your phone, DTMF. [00:12:53] Right. So started getting into things like ham radio and understanding how communications work. [00:12:59] So I started to really love that and went to school and did it and started working in places like Comp USA and computer Renaissance for anybody that remembers that in the break fix. [00:13:12] So I really loved computers at the time. [00:13:15] I got a degree in it and MIS management information systems and did some consultant work in hospitals like Montefiore. [00:13:24] Again, break fix printers, HP laser jets and so forth. [00:13:29] And then I found my passion in financial services. [00:13:33] I got my first financial services job consulting coming out of the yellow pages are each Donnelly again doing help desk and security wasn't big back then. [00:13:46] So started working through that and found my love for trading floor and equities and fixed income and started doing move air changes. [00:13:57] And then I went over to Morgan Stanley Dean Witter at the time. [00:14:00] And 9-11 happened. [00:14:05] I was working in tower two 56 floor and, you know, spent some time there. [00:14:11] And after 9-11, three days working straight, we moved 36,000 pieces of equipment executives who had offices in the towers. [00:14:22] We were the largest tenants. [00:14:23] We had them piled up into conference rooms and so forth. [00:14:27] I'll never forget a lot of my peers that I worked with. [00:14:31] I ate with, slept with all together inside in those rooms and those command centers, the old IT days and so forth. [00:14:39] And then after 9-11, I was put into 195 Broadway and just over seeing the iron cross every day and the ringing of the bell from the remains and coming out of my building on Broadway for everybody who was standing on the platform overlooking ground zero at that time. [00:14:59] There was an opportunity at SAC Capital hedge fund and Steve Cohen was moving into his own building. [00:15:08] They were basically building it. [00:15:09] So I spent a number of years there working on that project. [00:15:13] And that was pretty exciting to very fast paced, but I got to learn a lot about market data and so forth. [00:15:19] Not knowing security was going to be something in my future. [00:15:23] But after leaving SAC and going into the commodity space and working with power traders, oil, gas, commodities and so forth, I really started to understand more security companies were starting to come up more firewall outside of the standard picks, right? [00:15:44] So I started to see the 40 nuts of the 40 nuts of the world and I came across my first actually my first ever variant of the debt net D variant and McAfee took about three days to come up with a definition file. [00:15:59] But at that time, it propagated throughout our trading floor and computers had to be rebuilt. [00:16:06] So we worked all weekend long and technology was refreshed and you know all those windows systems. [00:16:14] And after that, my management team came and I was hey, Fabrico, do you want to run our sock? [00:16:22] I'm like, okay, what is that? [00:16:24] You know, the net not knowing those terms at that time, they like we need somebody for security. [00:16:30] And I took a major interest in that. [00:16:33] I loved it. [00:16:34] Again, I was up against just, you know, potentially unwanted programs and, and, you know, some some viruses, but I was dealing with a well instant messenger type of viruses and ways getting into the into those or into that organization itself. [00:16:53] And that was pretty, pretty fun and learning intrusion detection and early days of ISS or people can remember that. [00:17:02] That's been a pretty interesting learning path for me. [00:17:06] And then, you know, I was in the middle of doing the merges and acquisitions with them. [00:17:13] RBS came in and a number of the folks JP Morgan was acquiring the precious metals business and the commodities and society general and I was offered a job to go run security infrastructure out of Jersey City. [00:17:26] I was living in Connecticut. [00:17:27] I was living in Connecticut. [00:17:28] I happened to be at RSA. [00:17:31] I was on a panel with a number of my peers who are still in the business today. [00:17:36] And Fortinet was hosting it. [00:17:39] And NASDAQ happened to have a breach in 2010. [00:17:44] I was called in, spoke with the CISO at the time. [00:17:48] And from there, my career kind of went in a whole different direction. [00:17:53] And I turned down the opportunity to go work with Societe Generale, the French bank, and I gladly accepted NASDAQ, not knowing that, you know, security can lead into business. [00:18:06] Because if I take six years of leading security globally at the NASDAQ, it was not about just, you know, protecting national critical infrastructure. [00:18:16] It was business. [00:18:17] It was the next cybersecurity IPO on Wall Street. [00:18:21] And who was going to have that? [00:18:22] Was it the New York Stock Exchange? [00:18:24] Was it NASDAQ? [00:18:25] And I got to learn more about Silicon Valley startups, meet a lot of VCs and the private market side. [00:18:33] So that piqued my interest actually more than the cybersecurity stuff at the time. [00:18:40] And from there, moving into startup world, where I met probably most of you or some of you here, it's changed my life, right? [00:18:52] So I've learned a lot about being on the other side and on the corporate side and learning how to build companies and adding value. [00:19:00] And today for hobbies, I tell a lot of my peers that I love doing research, right? [00:19:06] I like looking at a lot of technologies and a lot of problems and then looking at those technologies and how do we solve the problems in those particular categories within that organization's projects, right? [00:19:22] And I like that from the biggest pharmaceuticals, manufacturing, health cares, retails, and so forth. [00:19:28] So, I mean, there's a lot of a lot I do during the day and a lot of do during the weekends as well, too. [00:19:35] But high level. I mean, I hope I didn't put anybody to sleep, but that's kind of like my past and moving into the future. [00:19:44] And now it's a rocket ship with Horizon 3. [00:19:49] Oh, that's awesome, Mike. And so much there to unpack. [00:19:52] And you answered my first question, which was what was your origin story? [00:19:55] I didn't even have to ask. [00:19:57] How would I know, you know, sort of, what do you call you? [00:20:03] You're like almost a brother to me from the Bronx, man. [00:20:06] I am a brother. [00:20:07] You know, I grew up in the Bronx, born and raised in the Bronx. [00:20:13] So, I, a lot, a lot there to unpack between Bronx, between Prodigy, between ISS. [00:20:18] Oh, man. [00:20:19] So, pagers, you mentioned pagers. [00:20:21] That was, so, look, thank you for that sort of backstory, if you will. [00:20:27] I'll pass it over to Russell. [00:20:29] Russell, anything you want to ask, Mike? [00:20:32] Oh, my God. [00:20:34] So, Tomas, what you were saying there earlier, you know, pagers. [00:20:37] I miss ISS so much back in the day. [00:20:40] Prodigy. [00:20:41] I think the first time I ever connected to the internet. [00:20:43] There's so many memories of things that I'm just surprised we've not met before this evening. [00:20:48] But, Mike, definitely appreciate you being here. [00:20:50] Question I'd like to ask, and it's something that I talk about a lot is, you know, advice of, you know, get wisdom as cheaply as you can. [00:20:56] How can we learn from others? [00:20:58] What lessons have we encountered that have made us be a better security leader? [00:21:03] So I want to ask that of you. [00:21:05] What's one thing you've learned at some point that you put into practice that you could possibly share with us so that we can get some wisdom as cheaply as we can from some part and some story that you've talked about perhaps before? [00:21:18] Well, I mean, from a wisdom perspective, I don't know how much wisdom I give you, but I can tell you what works for me is I'm constantly networking. [00:21:29] Right. [00:21:30] It's the little things, right? [00:21:31] It's the little things, right? [00:21:32] I take an hour a day out of my life and, you know, somebody's birthday pops up on LinkedIn. [00:21:38] I'm always wishing somebody happy birthday. [00:21:40] I congratulate everybody in my 15,000 plus people in my network and growing. [00:21:46] I take that time. [00:21:47] I like to consider myself a super connector. [00:21:51] I'm always there to help no matter what. [00:21:53] It doesn't matter. [00:21:54] It's not about anything other than just helping people, you know, when there's need to help. [00:22:01] Right. [00:22:02] So I understand the day job and then I understand the people. [00:22:05] Right. [00:22:06] It's I have my guys. [00:22:07] It's I'm always about, you know, how can I help you? [00:22:10] How can I serve you? [00:22:11] Right. [00:22:12] I do that. [00:22:13] I define that for me personally, just it makes me connect better with people within cyber, within [00:22:21] technology, because I am connecting, you know, on the business side. [00:22:24] I'm connecting on the VC side. [00:22:26] I'm connecting on the CISO side. [00:22:28] And then I'm getting connected from a, hey, Fabrico, we were just hit with ransomware. [00:22:35] Can you help us? [00:22:36] We don't know what to do. [00:22:37] Right. [00:22:38] So a lot of people buy tools and they implement tools and then things happen. [00:22:43] I was just dealing. [00:22:44] I'll give you an example. [00:22:45] I was just dealing with a very large manufacturing company mentoring the CISO and what's going [00:22:51] on in Ukraine. [00:22:52] Right. [00:22:53] Has a plant sitting in Ukraine and next door is an office building and their backups are [00:22:59] sitting in the office building and that building got demolished. [00:23:02] So strategies never know that this stuff can happen. [00:23:06] So I think if we can talk more and I love the fact that you guys do a fireside chat and you're [00:23:12] asking questions like that because, you know, I think in every conversation there is a piece [00:23:18] of knowledge that somebody could take and use in their day to day life. [00:23:23] So hopefully that answers your question. [00:23:26] I'm just trying to give some scenarios for my part. [00:23:29] Now, I appreciate that, Mike. [00:23:31] And I wrote that down. [00:23:32] Be a, be like Mike, be a super connector. [00:23:36] Love that so much. [00:23:37] Katie, over to you, my friend. [00:23:39] Great. [00:23:40] Hi, Mike. [00:23:41] Nice to meet you. [00:23:42] So listen, there's a lot to unpack about your background. [00:23:46] So I have a question and I, I don't know you very well, but you said you're a super connector. [00:23:51] You seem pretty open. [00:23:52] I want to ask you a question. [00:23:55] Many people who survived 9-11 have also come out of that experience being able to make split [00:24:02] second decisions. [00:24:03] There was even a Wall Street Journal article I literally was reading over the weekend talking [00:24:08] about that. [00:24:09] How much did that experience for you and having to rebuild an organization impact your trajectory [00:24:16] into the security space and making those split second decisions that we have to do as practitioners [00:24:21] every day? [00:24:22] Well, you know, nobody's ever asked me that, but I can tell you thinking back, it was, it was rough. [00:24:30] I mean, I can, you know, being real now is, you know, I had a hard time sleeping. [00:24:37] I was dreaming of like spiders, like crawling on me. [00:24:41] My wife is waking me up and middle of sleep. [00:24:43] Like, you know, leave me alone. [00:24:44] I'm sleeping. [00:24:45] So, uh, it definitely had impact, um, because I was feeling it. [00:24:51] Um, I was in the middle of it. [00:24:53] Um, from, from making decisions. [00:24:57] I could tell you since then, uh, I listened to my gut. [00:25:02] Um, if, if, if I don't feel something's right, I go with that, um, as best as I can. [00:25:09] Um, but making fast decisions, you know, sometimes you wonder, right? [00:25:16] It's like, where did those decisions come from? [00:25:18] And, you know, like why some people make it and why don't some people make it? [00:25:23] So I mean, that's a, that, that's a deep one there. [00:25:27] Yeah, I know. [00:25:28] Sorry. [00:25:29] It's a little heavy for the second question, but I couldn't help myself because I, it was an article that I had pulled. [00:25:34] It was, you know, September of last year and it was really more related to people in the financial services industry in general. [00:25:39] But I thought, well, that, you know, when you said that, I thought that, that might, you know, be something that is just part of your DNA that has impacted the decisions that you make every day in this industry as well. [00:25:49] So yeah, I appreciate your transparency there. [00:25:51] I didn't mean to pry too much into that, but I, I, I enjoy that. [00:25:56] I just don't know how deep of, uh, I can go with that because, uh, you know, like over COVID, you know, I know we had a lot of these social settings and these happy hours over zoom and it became second nature. [00:26:09] And I've been learning a lot about, you know, the lifespan itself and understanding data and looking at companies like Apple and Amazon, looking to build high-level data. [00:26:18] And, you know, we talk a lot about IOT, right? [00:26:20] Securing IOT, especially in the medical space. [00:26:22] But what about, you know, internet of humans? [00:26:25] What, how, you know, I, I love to hear what's going on like at Harvard in the medical and the technology space where they're coming back with information saying your doctor, you know, if you have it wearable, you know, your doctor could predict your heart attack a month before. [00:26:47] That excites me, you know, to, to know that because, uh, that, that definitely, you know, what, what about technologies? [00:26:56] We all carry devices in our hands or connected to these things. [00:27:00] What if something was going on at grand central and then we can be diverted to go somewhere else because we get some piece of information and now thinking quick and never not trusting. [00:27:11] And how many times people, and I know it happens to me all the time. [00:27:14] I'm driving, you know, go getting ready to, you know, there's always traffic on, on the, on the Bruckner or somewhere going into Jersey. [00:27:22] I meet a lot of folks out there for dinner as well. [00:27:25] And Wade says, Hey, get off here. [00:27:26] And I'm like, no, no, no, no. [00:27:27] But then I get stuck in traffic because I didn't trust the data. [00:27:31] So we're going to come to a point where we're going to trust the data. [00:27:34] We're going to trust ourselves. [00:27:35] And then, um, you know, we'll be able to make smarter decisions. [00:27:40] I don't know if that aligns Katie, what you're saying. [00:27:42] I think it does. [00:27:43] Yeah. [00:27:44] You know, I think, and I, I love that, um, you introduced a new term to me as well with, you know, internet of humans. [00:27:48] Cause I think that's really what I was getting at with the question is how much of that is part of your DNA as a security practitioner. [00:27:56] But I guess with the internet of humans, um, we would begin to get, you know, that, you know, aggregate that data, not with just our own, um, grassroots, uh, you know, aggregation of what we're reading and, and various research articles or in the wall street journal, but actually, you know, in, in the data of, of humans, that's fascinating. [00:28:13] Um, but with that, um, yeah, thank you for digging into that with me. [00:28:17] And, um, we should potentially, you know, a year out, talk about the next startup that you found that's doing the internet of humans, uh, research. [00:28:24] We can talk about that, but with that, uh, Lisa Beth, what's your question for Mike? [00:28:29] We'll be able to talk, we'll be able to talk about that in the metaverse. [00:28:31] Oh yes, of course. [00:28:32] There you go. [00:28:33] I want to know all about that. [00:28:35] People are talking about NFTs and Bitcoin and they can wire money to China. [00:28:40] I'm like, tell me about this. [00:28:42] Cause it's coming. [00:28:43] Educate me. [00:28:44] If I got to spend money, I want to learn because I'm, I'm like a sponge. [00:28:47] I do love this stuff. [00:28:48] Um, you know, I love security. [00:28:51] It gives me a great, uh, reason to wait for it. [00:28:53] Uh, reason to wake up every day and add value. [00:28:56] But then there's the inquisitive part of me that wants to just learn more. [00:29:01] And I know the more data that's out there and there's people on this, in this room right now, that's thinking about securing people's medical data, health records, right? [00:29:10] This is on the forefront of their boards and so forth. [00:29:12] So it's coming. [00:29:13] It's here. [00:29:14] It's just like, okay. [00:29:15] How do we, as security practitioners, how do we help solve those problems? [00:29:20] Right. [00:29:21] I know, I know Russell and I are chomping at the bit to talk about NFT. [00:29:26] So we're happy to talk about that anytime we can. [00:29:28] Please. [00:29:29] If I got to take a selfie, Tomas, of myself and you guys can sell it, I'd love it. [00:29:34] Hey, make sure you spill something on yourself. [00:29:37] Spill like, spill like some milk on your head or something. [00:29:40] Take the selfie. [00:29:41] Sure. [00:29:42] Lisa Bev over to you. [00:29:43] My hobby is coffee. [00:29:44] Well, this has been a really interesting start to our day. [00:29:50] I'm going to just take a couple seconds here to do a quick room reset. [00:29:54] We try to do a room reset every half hour-ish. [00:29:58] This is the Fireside Chat. [00:30:01] You are with us having this conversation with Mike today. [00:30:05] If you are new to this room or to the Fireside Chat in general, just take a moment to click on that little greenhouse at the top of your screen and join the club and find out when all the upcoming events are happening. [00:30:20] It's Wednesday nights. [00:30:22] We start at 8 p.m. Eastern and go for usually about an hour and a half. [00:30:28] So, Mike, I'm glad that we're getting to have this conversation today. [00:30:33] One of the things that I wanted to ask you is, you know, you kind of called yourself a super connector or super node, right? [00:30:42] That person that continues to connect with others. [00:30:45] One of the things that I think is interesting is that it seems to me like some of the ways that we used to connect pre-COVID are very different now and some are very similar. [00:30:59] What are your views on how best to connect with people today? [00:31:05] And if for some of the people who are maybe, you know, at different points in their career journey, what's the best way to leverage mentoring and what's your approach to that? [00:31:17] So it's a kind of double pronged question. [00:31:20] Wow. [00:31:21] Wow. [00:31:22] That's that's. [00:31:23] Yeah, I mean, because I'm, you know, from the moment I open my eyes and put my feet on the ground and thank the universe for another day breathing because we can't take that for granted. [00:31:34] Right. We've come through COVID. I was at RSA a couple of years ago and one of my good friends was the first in the state of Connecticut to be induced an 11 day coma on a machine and two babies at home, twins. [00:31:49] Right. So I'm thankful that, you know, I was healthy through it and so forth and medical science and vaccinations and, you know, not going against anybody's beliefs, but this is this is my belief. [00:32:00] So connecting, I think, you know, I'm a big component of LinkedIn. I like to read things that people write and talk about and I like to understand those. [00:32:16] I guess I use technology like everybody else to connect with people via social media, emails, texts. [00:32:24] We're bombarded with lots of stuff coming to horizon three. [00:32:28] I got my first experience with slack and learning slack channels and and a lot to take in. [00:32:35] And then you have to stop and think, OK, what are we doing to take breaks? [00:32:39] So I'm trying to influence my team to have social channels. [00:32:45] Right. Like I mentioned the briefly, like I coffee, espresso, pulling that perfect espresso shot at my home barista. [00:32:53] Barista bar. Right. I I I enjoy that. Right. [00:32:57] And I like to take pictures of that show that to the team. [00:33:00] I like to have breaks over slack and just invite the team or people to just take a break when we have some time to take a break. [00:33:08] So now I'm starting to see the yoga channel, the Peloton channel, this like those kind of things. [00:33:15] I think people interacting not only with fitness, health and using technology to wrap it all together. [00:33:23] I think it's great. I love seeing some of my developers who run. [00:33:29] They put their charts, you know, just how many miles they showed a map. [00:33:32] Everybody lives in a different place. [00:33:34] So I think that those are some good ways. [00:33:38] I don't know if that totally answers your question, but I'm thinking about how we how we use technology in a social setting to get some of that. [00:33:50] I think I love it. Love it. [00:33:54] And I think it's important as we kind of navigate this this world to figure out like what's changed and what's still the same. [00:34:02] So thanks for sharing that, Mike. Hussein, over to you. [00:34:06] Hey, Mike, how you doing, buddy? [00:34:09] Hey, Bob. Change gears a little bit. [00:34:11] I'm going to ask you what is Mike Fabrico like to do for fun? [00:34:15] What is the type of volunteer work? [00:34:17] Does it do? What does it do to give back? [00:34:19] And what's its hobbies? [00:34:21] We want to get to know you a bit. [00:34:23] Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:24] So, well, besides not hitting the wineries anymore like I was back in the day in Napa and so forth, [00:34:36] hobbies, first of all, I love just like I said, you know, doing coffee. [00:34:44] It's it's a pretty interesting hobby. It's fun. It gets me going. [00:34:49] I love to read. I'm always, you know, reading different things. [00:34:54] Just recently, I signed up to Apple News and it's become an addiction for me. [00:34:59] So I'm looking at different things, you know, constantly, you know, scamming through the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and so forth. [00:35:08] So that's pretty fun. [00:35:10] My family is something that I cherish. [00:35:16] I have a 14 year old daughter. I'm married for 21 years now. [00:35:21] And my daughter is a freshman in a preparatory high school. [00:35:27] So it's pretty fun to watch her change from this. [00:35:32] In my mind, I have this little baby learning to walk and, you know, daddy this and daddy that into this teenager. [00:35:39] So I'm having I'm having that period in my life saying, you know, why did somebody tell me this? [00:35:45] You know, like when she has a bad morning and she doesn't want to talk to me, it's like, what did I do wrong? [00:35:50] So I just learned to just be quiet and do my thing. [00:35:53] And sometimes she listened to me take calls in the car and so forth. [00:35:56] So, you know, I haven't had much of a vacation. [00:36:01] A lot of my vacation is I work on vacation, too. [00:36:05] I try to check in and, you know, I think we're all connected in some shape or form. [00:36:10] So I was going to say you have kids that actually call you and acknowledge you. [00:36:15] That is amazing, Mike. [00:36:17] Yes. [00:36:18] So, you know, Tomas, I even though I pay for a private bus, I take it upon myself to wake up in the morning, make her breakfast. [00:36:27] I help her get out the door. [00:36:29] I take her to school. [00:36:30] I spend 10, 15 minutes on the road with her. [00:36:33] She's got her air pods in her ear listening to some Britney tune. [00:36:37] And I'm listening to the news or the radio or something. [00:36:40] So I try. [00:36:42] I try. [00:36:43] Some days she wants it. [00:36:44] And some days she's like, I'm not having it. [00:36:46] Tomas, you missed it. [00:36:49] 14, not 18. [00:36:50] He's got four years of that. [00:36:53] Oh, I'm calling you guys. [00:36:55] You guys got experience. [00:36:56] Please help me. [00:36:57] I was about to say, I saw my son the other day. [00:37:02] I know he was here because the food in my fridge was empty. [00:37:06] So two more quick questions, Mike. [00:37:11] Yeah. [00:37:12] Yankees or Mets? [00:37:13] Come on, Hussein. [00:37:14] You and I met at the Yankee Stadium. [00:37:17] There you go. [00:37:18] All right. [00:37:19] The next one is just another quick one. [00:37:21] Jets or Giants? [00:37:22] Jets. [00:37:23] All right. [00:37:24] Well, forgive you for that. [00:37:25] Hook you up with Matt Petty one day. [00:37:26] Yeah. [00:37:27] Well, I did have Frank Sacco work for me once. [00:37:29] Frank got drafted from Fordham University into the NFL to the New England Patriots. [00:37:38] I'm not a Patriots fan, but you know, it was nice to learn a lot about his NFL story. [00:37:45] And I had him give a talk within a group in New Jersey a couple of years ago. [00:37:50] So Frank Sacco 1.0 to Frank Sacco 2.0. [00:37:54] And it was an amazing story that you have no idea what really happens in the NFL. [00:37:58] I know Tomas might have some inkling, but you know, when somebody, you know, destroys their leg in a game and their career is over, it's like coming out of the military, never knowing, you know, civilian life. [00:38:11] So it's a, it's game changer for those folks too. [00:38:14] So my heart goes out to even those NFL guys. [00:38:18] Yeah. [00:38:19] We only read about LT in the news. [00:38:21] Over to you. [00:38:22] Yeah. [00:38:23] Yeah. [00:38:24] So, I think that's a great question. [00:38:25] Thanks, Jane. [00:38:26] Mike, thanks for joining. [00:38:27] I appreciate the background insights and your story. [00:38:30] I think a lot of us are sharing flashbacks from your, your history and compute and technology. [00:38:36] One thing I wanted to ask you was, you know, you have that, you know, you know, exhibit a growth mindset that seems that thirst for learning. [00:38:45] How do you convey that, that passion just for engaging learning with your teams that you've been part of? [00:38:53] Oh, man. [00:38:55] That's, that's interesting. [00:38:56] It's not only about the work. [00:38:58] Like this morning, we were just, my team, we were on, we were on an overview call and I'm like, God, who bought, who bought CrowdStrike last week? [00:39:07] And they were like, not us. [00:39:08] I'm like, well, look, what's going on, you know, from a, from a financial services, from, from the market itself. [00:39:15] Right. [00:39:16] So we're constantly having those conversations. [00:39:19] I think if, if people take the time to move away from the work itself and have those conversations about things they enjoy, because I enjoy having those conversations and, and they do too. [00:39:31] And then I noticed some of my guys are like, Hey, look what I just bought today. [00:39:35] I bought 10 shares of this. [00:39:36] Right. [00:39:37] You mentioned that, and I've been trying to get my guys to buy TQQQ and then all of a sudden it's up like 20%, you know? [00:39:44] So it's a lot of that collaboration. [00:39:47] And yeah, I, we, we find, we find fun in it. [00:39:52] Does that answer your question or should we go a different direction? [00:39:56] It does. [00:39:57] It does. [00:39:58] And part of that, like you said, is, you know, you know, I think people seeing that, you know, firsthand, Jim, your, your, your leadership. [00:40:04] I mean, that translates down like, Hey, that, you know, people get more excited and it's contagious. [00:40:09] So that's, that's great to hear. [00:40:10] Yeah. [00:40:11] Yeah. [00:40:12] It's fun. [00:40:13] It's fun. [00:40:14] We could talk about CISSP to the cows come home and all that kind of stuff. [00:40:17] But, you know, people want to just, you know, enjoy the day. [00:40:21] I think. [00:40:22] Yeah. [00:40:23] Yeah. [00:40:24] Agreed. [00:40:25] Yeah. [00:40:26] Look, I think with all the, all the stuff that's going on in the world and all the work that we got to deal with, sometimes, you know, a little bit of connectedness goes a long way. [00:40:34] Right. [00:40:35] Right. [00:40:36] So look, it is, it is 8.36 PM Eastern time. [00:40:38] If you do have a question or something you want to ask Mike, and you want to pop up on stage, feel free to raise your hand and we'll bring you up on stage. [00:40:45] And you can ask your question. [00:40:47] If you don't want to sort of pop up on stage and you want to ask your question through the chat, feel free to do so. [00:40:53] We'll try to read the chat and, and, and direct questions there. [00:40:58] So I did see, there was a question in the chat. [00:41:00] I think I'm going to get the name, the way this name is pronounced. [00:41:05] I don't know if it's a typo of it. [00:41:07] That's the way it is. [00:41:08] Chanel. [00:41:09] Chanel spent most of his career. [00:41:12] Was a civilian. [00:41:13] He volunteered to spend time with JSOC and return to the private side. [00:41:16] Curious. [00:41:17] What's it like to work with. [00:41:19] Now, how. [00:41:21] I think. [00:41:22] Oh, [00:41:23] there you go. [00:41:24] All right. [00:41:25] You guys. [00:41:26] That was a question in the chat. [00:41:27] Go for it, Mike. [00:41:28] Of course. [00:41:29] Sneha, Antony and I have been friends since 2010. [00:41:33] Uh, saying how was the CIO of G capital and him and I served on a panel number of years [00:41:38] ago, met him through one of my mentors, uh, Frank Fanzelli, global retired CIO credit Swiss [00:41:44] versus Boston. [00:41:45] Um, working with Sneha is interesting. [00:41:48] I love the way he thinks. [00:41:50] Um, there's nothing that he's, he, he, he's not a know it all, right? [00:41:55] He's, he's a guy, I think he has a big heart. [00:41:58] Um, he's always pushing a little harder, uh, for me to, to, to be the best I could be as [00:42:05] well too, but our collaborations are so transparent and you don't find that in CEOs, especially [00:42:11] young founder CEOs, first time CEOs. [00:42:14] And, and I always joke with him and say, look, now your first time CEO, I've been through [00:42:18] this before, right? [00:42:19] I watch guys, the board fire guys like you and stuff. [00:42:23] And he's like, Oh yeah, sure. [00:42:25] Thanks. [00:42:26] You know, you don't believe in me. [00:42:27] And it's not that it's just, you know, history repeats itself. [00:42:31] And, and he's proven me wrong. [00:42:33] I mean, it's every day I'm surprised. [00:42:36] I mean, he's just, he's focused and you know, it's, it's, it's amazing to work with guys like [00:42:43] him and Anthony Palteri, the deputy CTO of the J stock different, different energy. [00:42:48] Uh, Anthony's like, Hey, I'm your brother. [00:42:51] I'm your family. [00:42:52] I love you coming to my house, live with me. [00:42:55] It's now I was like, how do we get to a billion dollars? [00:42:58] You know what I'm saying? [00:42:59] Two different mindsets. [00:43:01] Uh, but I love working with both of them, you know, coming out of the J sock and, and [00:43:05] I'm appreciative of all the work that they did for us as American citizens in this country, [00:43:11] uh, as well too. [00:43:12] So yeah. [00:43:13] Um, love snail. [00:43:14] And Tony. [00:43:15] Awesome. [00:43:16] Thanks for that. [00:43:17] Thanks for that. [00:43:18] Thanks for that. [00:43:19] And I'm sorry. [00:43:20] I got Snehow's name wrong when I was trying to pronounce it. [00:43:22] Uh, so my bad. [00:43:24] Um, but anyways, it is, like I said, it is 8 30. [00:43:27] Uh, well now it's 8 38 PM. [00:43:29] And if you do have a question and you want to pop up on stage to ask Mike, feel free to [00:43:32] raise your hand and we will bring you up on stage. [00:43:35] Uh, if it's the first time you joined us, there's a little greenhouse on top left of the screen. [00:43:39] Right next to what says fireside chat. [00:43:41] It looks like a monopoly house. [00:43:42] You can click that house and you can join the fireside chat club clubhouse club. [00:43:48] Uh, we'd be more than happy to have you join the club. [00:43:51] Uh, Ryan, thanks for popping up on stage. [00:43:53] I think you want to ask Mike. [00:43:54] Yeah, I do. [00:43:56] Um, nice to meet you, Mike. [00:43:58] I'm Ryan. [00:43:59] Um, you know, before I think you said the words I've been trying to take notes. [00:44:03] He said something about predicting a heart attack a month early in technology. [00:44:07] And then I was looking up, um, your role a little bit, you know, like secret spy stuff. [00:44:12] No, not really just reading LinkedIn, but, um, I saw how it said, right? [00:44:16] Autonomous. [00:44:23] Uh, we lost your Ryan. [00:44:25] Oh, did you make yourself by accident? [00:44:27] I'm sorry. [00:44:28] So, um, what was the last thing you heard? [00:44:30] Uh, autonomous. [00:44:31] Autonomous. [00:44:32] Okay. [00:44:33] So I said, I looked up, right. [00:44:34] Your role in this startup a little bit on LinkedIn. [00:44:36] And I saw that it said continuous autonomous pen testing. [00:44:38] And so my question for you is how can we be more proactive and preventative in the cyber security, but just in general also, right. [00:44:48] Uh, space. [00:44:49] I think and feel like so many companies, so many things that we do are reactive and, and we have to be because like the things that were the way the world works. [00:44:59] We're always constantly reacting. [00:45:01] We're reacting to, again, right. [00:45:03] I think you mentioned a little bit about the vaccine pandemic, right. [00:45:05] Now to get into the political side of it, but we're reacting to that. [00:45:08] Um, we're, we're reacting to the Ukraine, uh, Russia conflict as it continues to happen. [00:45:14] We're, uh, you know, reacting to just normal business operational trend, et cetera, et cetera. [00:45:20] And so I just would love to know and hear your perspective from, you know, your, your breath of experience clearly, including, you know, personal stuff. [00:45:28] Like even like work stuff, like, as you've been sharing and again, thank you so much for sharing about your nine 11 experiences. [00:45:34] I really wasn't sure, you know, that, that to me was just such a surprise, um, to hear and how I see in a good way, but you know, I, I really appreciate you being able to share that. [00:45:45] So I hope that question makes sense for anything, anything you can say. [00:45:49] Yeah, no, it makes, it makes sense. [00:45:51] And thank you. [00:45:52] And I love being in, in, in a session where I could be myself, right. [00:45:58] I don't have to talk specifically about something. [00:46:01] A lot of times it's specific questions and it's in our space and it's, you know, why do you think companies are being hacked? [00:46:07] And what do you think the next big hack is it? [00:46:10] It's that it's, it's whack them all, right. [00:46:12] We, we, we all done it. [00:46:14] I, I mean, I've, I've seen the Russians and the Iranians and distributed denial of service attacks where I can't handle it. [00:46:21] Right. [00:46:22] So I, I've been in that and those shoes and I've been in a number of other ones as well, too. [00:46:27] Um, so, you know, from an autonomous perspective, and I think, you know, if I can say to, you know, the CISOs and the practitioners on this, on this chat room, it's, it's about, you know, verifying, doing those checks. [00:46:42] Don't always just depend on your, your patch management. [00:46:45] Don't, you know, find better ways to alarm. [00:46:49] Don't always try to buy them in your box. [00:46:50] Don't always try to buy them in your box. [00:46:51] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:52] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:53] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:54] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:55] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:56] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:57] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:58] Don't buy them in your box. [00:46:59] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:00] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:01] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:02] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:03] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:04] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:05] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:06] Don't buy them in your box. [00:47:07] Don't wait for an audit or don't wait for somebody to come in and do offensive cyber in your environment. [00:47:14] And it's like, oh, we didn't know it was down for a month. Right. [00:47:18] It's like things like that, you know, because I think a lot of myself included practitioners, we can become, you know, lazy at some points. [00:47:28] Right. And misconfigurations. I see them all the time. Years ago, they used to say, what's the problem? [00:47:33] The problems between the chair and the screen. Right. That's what we used to say when we had a desk job. Right. [00:47:39] That kind of stuff. And then, you know, looking at, you know, better, you know, taking hygiene. [00:47:44] And and I think we've all done great jobs, you know, doing phishing campaigns. Right. [00:47:49] And educating our employees and our peers on, you know, be more diligent and what not to click on. [00:47:56] But then we still use company name one, two, three exclamation for a password. [00:48:00] Right. We're still not using multi-factor, you know, and these cracking harnesses are getting better. [00:48:07] I'm seeing 50 character passwords that look crazy being cracked by these cracking harnesses. [00:48:14] If we give them enough time because we're not stopping and nobody's seeing the events at a certain period of time to say, hey, something's going on here. [00:48:23] Right. You're giving guys like us who look at the environment, do the eyes of an attacker. [00:48:30] You're giving us time because there's no roadblocks to to slow it down. [00:48:35] And I see it too often, even in environments that have unlimited security budget. [00:48:40] I go into environments that have little security budget and then I go environments that I'm the CISO, CTO, CIO, help desk and the janitor at the same time. [00:48:49] I'm doing everything because we have no budget and I can't hire nobody. Right. [00:48:53] So that's going on. I'm on the board of the university for the graduate program of Sacred Heart University in cybersecurity. [00:49:01] And I'm always speaking to these students. [00:49:05] And what my goal is to help the ones that want to come into our space and be the best that they can be. [00:49:12] So we talked a little bit about mentoring. You know, I'm giving back in that case. Right. [00:49:17] I'm finding those students and I'm connecting those dots and I'm talking to some of the recruiters. [00:49:23] I'm saying, hey, I met this student at the school and I think this is their strong parts. [00:49:28] I talked to the professor. What can we do? [00:49:31] Fortinet calls me up and says, hey, could they relocate to like a company? [00:49:35] You know, like can they relocate from the East Coast or West Coast? [00:49:38] They have that conversation. Sure. All of a sudden that person gets a job. [00:49:42] So talk about giving back right now. I'm always looking for that. [00:49:45] So but not to derail and get away from your question, Ryan. [00:49:49] I'm just trying to answer it from autonomous and what we can do and things that are going on all at the same time. [00:49:55] We have to think on our feet very quickly. Right. [00:49:58] We can't always trust our security controls. We have to verify them constantly. Right. [00:50:04] You know, like I don't want to say wartime, but, you know, that's what's amongst us. [00:50:08] Even in security, it's always wartime. We as CISOs, we would say, why didn't we do that three years ago? [00:50:14] It took this long and then something happened. So hopefully that answered some of it. [00:50:19] But if not, I'd love to have, you know, side conversations or however, you know, I just love talking about it. [00:50:29] Ryan, did that answer your question, Ryan? [00:50:31] Of course it did. But I always want to ask more and I try to be very respectful of my time. [00:50:36] So I'll hop back down into the audience. And if there's another opportunity, you know, there is another opportunity. [00:50:43] Go ahead, Ryan. Are you sure? [00:50:44] All right. All right. So, Mike, that's really helpful. [00:50:49] And it's really insightful. And I could not agree with you more. [00:50:52] Sure. I'm just curious. So then like my next question would be like, how do you train or know? [00:50:56] And I know we were mentioning before, like NFTs and some other stuff. Right. [00:51:00] How do you keep your team sharp and trained and up to date? [00:51:03] Like, what would your recommendation be to, you know, have the best, you know, prepare it right in order to prepare for a company? [00:51:10] We have to prepare ourselves. Right. So how do you recommend or how do you go about doing that? [00:51:15] You got to prepare yourself. You said it. You hit the nail on the head. Meditate. [00:51:23] Because look, look, I'm preaching to the choir. The threat landscape changes every moment. Right. [00:51:29] We were having we were getting ready for a weekend and all of a sudden log for shell hits. [00:51:34] And then the second variant. And I see some folks on here like Alex W. [00:51:38] And a few other folks who couldn't understand. [00:51:41] Like this is what they talk about and think about all day from from an attack vector. Right. [00:51:46] You need to keep your cool under under pressure. [00:51:50] I find, you know, people either going to crack or or or do something and learn something from that experience. [00:51:57] But our threat landscape changes every single day. [00:52:01] So having those basic foundations and understanding and know thyself. [00:52:06] I think that's the I think that's the answer. [00:52:11] But at the same time, in our space, you have to be Michelangelo. [00:52:15] You have to love this and you have to have an art for it. Right. [00:52:20] It's there's a big difference between being a stick figure artist and somebody who can paint beautifully. [00:52:26] Right. Something that just like, oh, my God. Wow. [00:52:28] Thank you. Appreciate that. And thank you for letting me have my second question. [00:52:35] Really enjoying the conversation. [00:52:38] Thank you. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for popping up on stage and asking you a question. [00:52:44] Anita Barnes. Anybody have another question? Go ahead. Right. [00:52:48] Here, I have one. So you talked a lot about your career path. [00:52:54] You mentioned, I think, briefly that you are from the Bronx originally. [00:52:58] Is that what I heard you say? Yes, he did. He said the Bronx. I heard it. [00:53:03] That's what I thought. OK. I knew the energy from Tomas suggested you might be from the Bronx. [00:53:09] But one of the things that we talk about a lot here and even with, you know, my own origin story, [00:53:14] others in the room who've been, you know, the person being interviewed have shared their background being very nontraditional. [00:53:23] Mine was very nontraditional, kind of the opposite of an urban environment. [00:53:27] I grew up in a very small town, really not even seeing myself in, you know, any type of business role, [00:53:33] let alone in STEM or in cybersecurity as an executive. [00:53:37] So could you share a little bit more about when you were, you know, an eight-year-old little Mike running around or Mikey [00:53:43] or whoever, whatever you're called running around? [00:53:45] Did you have dreams and aspirations to get into a certain space? [00:53:48] What obstacles did you have? And were there any things that happened to you in some of those primary moments of your life pre, [00:53:56] you know, education or pre, you know, first job at, you said it was RR Donnelly, right? [00:54:01] It was your first. [00:54:03] Well, it was my first corporate job. [00:54:04] Yeah, first corporate job. [00:54:05] Yeah. What was that transition for you? [00:54:08] Because that's for us, a lot of people just don't think they can do it. [00:54:11] And we're missing out on so much great talent. [00:54:12] So that's kind of where I'm going with that question and how we can find the right people. [00:54:17] This is awesome. I love this. You're taking me back, right? [00:54:20] So I feel like I got to be regressed even into a past life. [00:54:24] We'll call you Mikey. Is it Mikey, Michael? What was it? [00:54:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if that's what you're going to call me. [00:54:31] So I didn't even speak English. [00:54:33] My first language is Italian. So my parents are from Italy, right? [00:54:37] So I was born and raised in an Italian house and my grandparents died of not speaking English many years later. [00:54:45] Right. And we still write. It's like it's like that family that just we just chose not to speak, you know, English in the house. [00:54:52] So my first language is Italian. And then in first grade, I was, you know, we had nuns who spoke Italian. [00:55:00] So it was easy to a little bit easier to get by. And I started to, you know, learn English and my friends in the neighborhood. [00:55:07] But if you say eight years old and you just spark something in my mind. [00:55:11] So I had a set in encyclopedia. So I did have passion as a kid. [00:55:16] And I remember my parents in my room, I had Encyclopedia Americana and there were books. [00:55:23] This wasn't CD-ROM or Internet. Right. [00:55:26] So I think we're all old enough to know that. [00:55:30] But it was interesting. What sparked me was I was watching and I had six television channels and my antenna was pointed to the Empire State Building on our roof. [00:55:43] And I was watching something called QVC and they were talking about selling a computer. [00:55:48] And I don't know what opposed me to do this, but I cut out a cardboard box and I started making a keyboard because I saw them pressing keys. [00:56:00] And then they're putting in five and a quarter inch. [00:56:03] Maybe it was even something big and a five and a quarter inch floppy into a computer. [00:56:08] And I don't even know what model or company it was. [00:56:11] I could just see myself sitting in my living room with this big box TV with the vice grips on the TV box that you would because the knob broke off because we were rough kids. [00:56:22] And then I would turn the knob and then I can I can see them with the computer. [00:56:28] And I took floppy loose leaf and I made a floppy and I kind of cut a little hole in this cardboard and it's putting a little loose leaf paper in there. [00:56:38] I think that was the start of it. [00:56:41] And then it was like all downhill. [00:56:44] It was more like, OK, I started reading about astronauts and in the encyclopedia and this and that. [00:56:50] Like that, that I think that all tied together for something that I had passion for, which back then we called it. [00:56:58] Hey, you went to computers. [00:57:00] Right. [00:57:01] You know, because in my neighborhood, we you know, I was on a bowling league Mondays and Saturdays for an elementary school. [00:57:08] And there was another kid on the block with an Apple IIe and we made our modems talk to each other. [00:57:14] We'd call each other. [00:57:15] The modems would pick up 300 board and we would start typing. [00:57:19] Right. [00:57:19] So and it was like, you know, that was a couple of years later. [00:57:23] You know, I'm taking myself from eight, maybe to 10 or 11 years old. [00:57:27] But I'm trying to there's a lot in between there, you know, like intercoms and things like that. [00:57:33] That short, not almost a shortwave radio, but short, distant communication type of stuff that was non licensed or FCC type of thing. [00:57:43] So but yeah, you said eight years old. [00:57:45] And I started thinking about making that cardboard computer because I sourced something on QVC and I tried to make that. [00:57:54] Man, I love that story. [00:57:57] It's so funny to think that we owe our industry. [00:58:01] I was QVC. [00:58:04] So much for your contribution to our industry. [00:58:07] Think of all the things, you know. [00:58:08] Yeah. And I love the progression, too, where you said you went from, you know, that that initial interest to then, you know, OK, you're talking to the kid down the street. [00:58:17] Then, you know, did somebody tap you on the shoulder in high school? [00:58:20] Was there a club that you got involved in? [00:58:22] I'm kind of interested in that next step, too, of how you got to that first corporate job. [00:58:27] I love that it's I love that I tapped into eight years old. [00:58:30] But where did you go from talking to your neighbor down the street? [00:58:33] And then how did you get into actually that first corporate job, too? [00:58:38] Just if you could expand it. [00:58:38] Right. Right. [00:58:39] I know. I'll expand from there because it was great. [00:58:42] Because once I had, you know, we had the family computer, which was Tandy 1000 TL2, I think it was. [00:58:50] And I can't remember all the peripherals, but I remember it had a 20 megabyte hard drive, ISA hard drive in there. [00:58:57] It was running Windows dot six dot dot six, not even six to six. [00:59:03] So at the time I was reading through my dad, you know, like I said, he drove. [00:59:09] So when he didn't have to drive, he'd sit in his in the car and he'd read through. [00:59:13] He'd highlight a lot on dots. [00:59:15] He was trying to teach himself dots because he was trying to understand, like, what the prodigy folks were doing. [00:59:21] And, you know, my mom would never touch it because she was afraid of technology. [00:59:25] He was my father and then me. [00:59:27] And then I was I was not scared. [00:59:28] I'm like, I'm running bulletin boards. [00:59:30] I want 20 phone lines in the house. [00:59:32] I want Hunter lines. [00:59:33] Like, how do I get this? [00:59:35] I was trying to understand that that whole aspect. [00:59:38] And then it was it was. [00:59:41] War games. [00:59:43] Right. [00:59:43] And forget about going out like I was studying that movie over and over and over again, where my late fees for my VHS tape and my local video store in Morris Park in the Bronx. [00:59:58] I don't know how many, you know, $50 I owed on that tape. [01:00:02] Right. [01:00:02] Like I couldn't afford to buy the movie or we weren't really we didn't really have access to too much of that. [01:00:08] If if I got to go to like a Tower Records in Westchester County, I was like, oh, my God, that's what like rich people do, you know, type of thing. [01:00:16] So but yeah, so it was a lot of that. [01:00:21] It was it was bulletin boards. [01:00:23] I found friends in Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx, dial up war dialing type of solution. [01:00:30] And I started making connections with those folks on those BBSs and communicating and then getting into the prodigies of the world and having those things. [01:00:40] And it was, you know, going, you know, I had a job. [01:00:46] I had a summer job in a factory where my mom was like, you're not going to stay home, you know, all summer and just hang out in the streets. [01:00:56] Right. So I was like, OK, great. [01:00:57] What do I do? [01:00:58] So she took me to her place where they were manufacturing doorbells in the Bronx. [01:01:04] And I was it was doing a lot of work in the factory. [01:01:07] And there was no if you could picture no air condition. [01:01:10] So you kind of moving stuff around to get shipped into Lowe's and Home Depot, you know, doorbells. [01:01:17] And I started to understand how does a doorbell work? [01:01:22] So I would stay later when when the union people would leave. [01:01:26] I would stay later and I'd rip apart a doorbell and I would ask the folks. [01:01:31] I was 16 years old. [01:01:33] Then I would ask some of the folks that how does this work? [01:01:36] Like I started to learn transformer, solenoid, tone, different tones. [01:01:43] So when you hit a bell, go ding, ding. [01:01:44] How did that work and how was all constructed? [01:01:47] And then I asked to be put into the chimes department. [01:01:52] It's so funny. [01:01:53] They're like, what's this kid want to do in the chimes department? [01:01:56] And I started to work the line and put the doorbell together. [01:01:59] And then I met somebody because they started using computers and they would scan different barcodes. [01:02:07] And they put this computer, this rack system in a computer. [01:02:12] And the people in the chimes department would scan. [01:02:15] And I would ask my mother, what is that? [01:02:17] And she was like, oh, every time we run 500 doorbells, cases and plastics that close it, you know, it was a whole tool and die setting. [01:02:29] And it would compress. [01:02:31] And she's like, every time we scan that, the office knows to order a thousand more or something like that. [01:02:37] It was an inventory system. [01:02:38] I was like, okay, how does that? [01:02:40] And then I spoke, I see the woman come back and forth. [01:02:44] And my mother's like, oh, that's the lady that's working on the inventory system. [01:02:48] So I got to know her. [01:02:49] She was an older woman and she was great. [01:02:52] And I said, how does that work? [01:02:53] And she said, oh, that's a bomb. [01:02:55] I'm like, what is a bomb? [01:02:56] She goes, oh, bill of material. [01:02:58] That's how to purchase it. [01:02:59] So I spoke to the head purchaser. [01:03:01] And then I met the guy who put the Unix system, the SCO Unix. [01:03:06] That was my first introduction outside of Windows and Commodore 64 Basic and so forth. [01:03:12] So I started to learn that. [01:03:14] And I went to Barnes & Noble and I bought every book on Unix. [01:03:17] Unix for dummies, all this kind of stuff. [01:03:19] And I started learning commands. [01:03:21] And then I asked to be connected to that system. [01:03:25] So the consultant who built it actually started talking to me about it and letting me run some commands. [01:03:33] And he told me different things. [01:03:35] And I started verifying him in the book, right? [01:03:38] Like that kind of stuff. [01:03:40] And then one day something happened. [01:03:42] And then he came over and he talked to my mother. [01:03:45] He was like, hey, where's your son? [01:03:46] We were talking. [01:03:46] He goes, hey, I need PK on zip. [01:03:50] I'm trying to do something. [01:03:51] I'm like, oh, I got it on my bulletin board. [01:03:53] So I went to his computer and I dialed into my bulletin board and I downloaded it with X modem as the protocol. [01:04:00] And, you know, it changed my life. [01:04:03] Because after that, he spoke to the owner and he's like, this kid doesn't belong in the factory. [01:04:10] He belongs in here trying to understand how this works and technology. [01:04:15] He's got a passion. [01:04:16] And he goes, how many 16-year-olds have bulletin boards that I was able to get? [01:04:21] So it's like a week later, I started working in the office with those folks. [01:04:25] And I started to really learn how the bomb works and being able to, you know, do stuff within Unix and their program. [01:04:35] And it was constantly being up to date. [01:04:37] And, you know, they were trying to put technology into this factory that was done by paper. [01:04:42] Now it's done by computer. [01:04:43] And they're trying to automate it of the early, early 90s, basically. [01:04:48] You sleeping? [01:04:53] I am not sleeping. [01:04:55] No, I am not. [01:04:56] No, sorry. [01:04:56] I just thought Tomas might do a quick room reset. [01:04:59] But what I will say, if I could, before we do the reset, we normally reset at the top of the hour. [01:05:04] And we have a person from the audience who's joined us on stage. [01:05:07] So Nabil will come to you next. [01:05:09] But I would say, you know, in hearing that, I love that you were, I would say, and this is the most affectionate way, geeking out on your origin story. [01:05:17] You know, you really leaned in to the technology that was in front of you, whether it was when you're watching QVC and making the technology and mimicking it, and then actually digging in and getting to a place where you're understanding the connection to the business. [01:05:31] And I love, too, how the story, how you expanded more on how you got here, connected to one of the first things you said at the top of the hour, which was that you're a networker. [01:05:41] Well, how did you achieve the success that you have in this industry? [01:05:44] Well, it seemingly started when you were 12 years old and talking to the kid down the street on your modem, you know? [01:05:50] So that's just, I love that connection. [01:05:52] And then you expounded on your origin story. [01:05:54] So thank you for that. [01:05:56] I loved it. [01:05:57] I just was slow on coming off mute. [01:05:59] Yeah, yeah. [01:06:00] No, thank you. [01:06:01] I don't ever get to talk about this much. [01:06:03] Nobody cares about that Mike Fabrico in most cases. [01:06:06] People care about, what are you going to do for me? [01:06:09] How much can you make me? [01:06:10] Where can we go? [01:06:11] Who's going to buy this company? [01:06:13] When are we going to build the next one? [01:06:14] I never get to tell that, right? [01:06:16] It's like, you know what? [01:06:18] Now I'm thinking I should maybe write a book and tell the story and maybe they'll help somebody else. [01:06:24] And, you know, it wasn't given to me. [01:06:27] That's what I can tell you. [01:06:28] And it was never a point in my life where I said, you know, having an odd job that I'm, that's what I, you know, I'm going to go. [01:06:36] I never diverted away from technology. [01:06:38] Something kept drawing me in technology because you go from there to helping somebody run Cat 5 because somebody connected me with their brother who owns a consulting company for a construction company. [01:06:52] So I was running Cat 5 not too far from the Whitestone Bridge in a factory, right? [01:06:58] That led to me getting something else, which led me to a computer store run, you know, that was closed on a Friday and Saturday and opened on Sunday. [01:07:09] And they'd shuffle them in from Brooklyn and, you know, and, you know, we'd sell Packard Bell and that was Packard Bell certified and HP certified. [01:07:17] I'd do that break fix that led me into the Comp USA. [01:07:20] You see, it was like that led me into like a coffee cyber cafe where kids would have birthday parties and play shoot them up game, doom, zoom, that kind of stuff in a coffee setting of the time. [01:07:33] Because at that time, you know, early, like somewhere in the late 90s, it was about cyber cafes and connecting people on America Online. [01:07:42] And, you know, so I always somehow found the drawn way into staying with computers, right? [01:07:50] We never talked about it wasn't a career. [01:07:52] Cyber wasn't a career. [01:07:53] It was just computers that led us into a technology, which led us into consulting, which led us into building companies that solve real life security problems. [01:08:06] Awesome, Mike. [01:08:07] Awesome. [01:08:07] There's something to be said if you've never experienced a Britannica encyclopedia. [01:08:15] You haven't lived until you've experienced one of those. [01:08:18] There's something to be said about that. [01:08:20] Oh, man. [01:08:21] And if your bookshelf didn't break because you had too many series of the Britannica encyclopedia, then you definitely haven't lived. [01:08:29] But, no, that's awesome. [01:08:30] And that's why I love that origin story question. [01:08:34] And, Katie, thanks for sort of leaning in there and getting Mike to open up even further on that. [01:08:39] So that was awesome going down that memory lane with you. [01:08:43] Mike, really quickly, I do want to ask you one question, and then I'll pass it over to, I think it's Nabil or Nabi. [01:08:50] If I said it wrong, I'm sorry, but hopefully you can correct me. [01:08:54] Quick room reset. [01:08:55] Again, this is our weekly fireside chat. [01:08:57] We do this every Wednesday, 8 p.m. Eastern time to about 9.30 or so p.m. Eastern time. [01:09:01] If you have any questions that you want to ask, Mike, raise your hand. [01:09:03] We'll bring you up on stage. [01:09:04] We're going to, again, conclude like around 9.30 or so this evening. [01:09:08] I forgot to mention this, Hussein and others. [01:09:15] This is – so tomorrow will be a year that we've been doing this. [01:09:19] So we've been doing this every Wednesday for an entire year since March 10th of last year. [01:09:26] And our very first guest on the show, guess who it was? [01:09:30] Hussein, do you remember who it was? [01:09:33] Oh, Hussein's letting me down here. [01:09:35] He took a bathroom break. [01:09:37] It was Hussein. [01:09:38] No, shoot, man. [01:09:40] I was running back to the phone. [01:09:41] It was me. [01:09:43] It was you because I was supposed to be the first guest and something happened with me that I couldn't do it. [01:09:49] No, you got scared. [01:09:51] You didn't want to be the inaugural candidate here, brother. [01:09:54] You know me. [01:09:55] I probably did get scared. [01:09:57] I didn't want to be the first one to go. [01:09:58] But Hussein was our very first guest and we've had – what is that? [01:10:03] It's 52 weeks in a year? [01:10:04] We've got a good 52 people since then. [01:10:07] I was going to take a guess. [01:10:09] I was going to say Larry Whiteside Jr. for some reason. [01:10:13] I think he was probably number three or number two on the list. [01:10:16] But we've definitely had all – we've definitely had just about everybody that's a moderator. [01:10:20] We've had them sit in on the fireside chat. [01:10:23] So it's been an awesome year. [01:10:26] Can I say I'm number 100? [01:10:26] Can I be number 100? [01:10:28] You can say it. [01:10:29] It won't be true. [01:10:30] But you can say it. [01:10:31] Wow, 52, right? [01:10:33] Is it what, 52? [01:10:34] You're number 50. [01:10:36] Yeah, you're number 50. [01:10:37] No, you're 53, I think. [01:10:39] I don't know. [01:10:39] We're going to have to go back and look at the – [01:10:41] Awesome. [01:10:42] Awesome. [01:10:42] All good. [01:10:43] But I love this. [01:10:44] This is great. [01:10:45] I'm so happy to be here, guys. [01:10:47] This is the best therapy anybody can ask for, honestly. [01:10:51] It's just opening up. [01:10:52] And it's – I had one of those days today, and I feel so much better now. [01:10:57] That is spectacular, man. [01:10:59] That makes – that warms my heart. [01:11:02] I feel good about that. [01:11:03] I'm happy that you feel good. [01:11:06] So, Nabil or Nabi, please help me pronounce your name right. [01:11:12] You can unmute your mic. [01:11:13] And anything you want to ask, Mike? [01:11:15] Yes, it's Nabil, and you had it right at the beginning. [01:11:24] So, I hope you guys hear me. [01:11:26] Yep, we hear you loud and clear, Nabil. [01:11:28] All right. [01:11:29] So, I'm your friendly neighbor from the north in Canada, especially Montreal, the French side. [01:11:35] So, very interested, and I'm always looking forward for this Wednesday evening, listening to all of you guys. [01:11:43] It's really, really pleasant. [01:11:45] And just to say, big up to you guys. [01:11:47] It's a really great work that you guys are putting here. [01:11:50] So, my question for you is, as from a maturity standpoint, from a cyber world here in the corporation, Canada corporation, [01:11:58] it's – we are – I'm finding more and more some – like, we are lagging behind on – and I work in major companies here. [01:12:08] My question is around what is the mindset that you have when you have to address those tough questions around – I'm mid-management. [01:12:18] So, when you have to have those tough questions with senior leadership within the organization around deep, deep technical challenges that may end up in a big, like, great crisis that you foresee. [01:12:37] And they don't understand the value of bringing those issues ahead and hiding it behind other topics around – like, let's redefine the undefinable things around – let's see it from a risk perspective from this. [01:12:58] Like, it's understandable, but we can't avoid the elephant in the room sometimes. [01:13:04] And how do you – what is your mindset when you have to address those kind of tough questions? [01:13:10] Oh, that's interesting. [01:13:13] I mean, yeah, I mean, that could be tough. [01:13:17] But I've addressed those tough questions. [01:13:20] I've presented to boards before. [01:13:24] Sometimes seeing is believing. [01:13:28] I've been approached a number of years ago, even taking you back to Conflict or Keto down and up, MS 08067, right? [01:13:36] So, you know, when people don't understand why patching is critical, because in some cases it takes a number of folks to take a process down and reboot a system that's in production and do testing in QA, QC, right? [01:13:53] This type of environment, right? [01:13:56] There's a reason why there's an elephant in the room, because a lot of people get burnt, right? [01:14:01] People trust that somebody is going to do a job, and then all of a sudden we've been there, right? [01:14:07] We roll code out, and then we have to roll it back, right? [01:14:10] And it's like now you have a production issue, and maybe that code is being rolled back at a certain time during production hours. [01:14:18] And now you're having multiple issues, and you have to explain that change and so forth. [01:14:24] But I think it's, you know, education is one. [01:14:28] We all make mistakes. [01:14:30] So understanding that, I think, is critical. [01:14:34] And if people are questioning or putting security under the carpet and not exposing it, they will get exposed. [01:14:43] I mean, we're seeing the industry move towards heavy fines, right? [01:14:48] So this stuff is starting to come out. [01:14:51] I'd be, I'm very curious, but I can't ask you, but I'm very curious, like, you know, what they're actually saying for you to be asking this type of question. [01:15:02] Usually it's people who either don't care or people who don't think they have a problem. [01:15:08] And, you know, I always say, and we all say it, I think, you know, it's not if, it's when, right? [01:15:13] And when the when happens, somebody's getting fired or somebody's got an answer to that. [01:15:17] But there's a lot of ways to answer that question. [01:15:20] There's a lot of folks in this room who are a lot more experienced than me. [01:15:23] But I'm just trying to take your question and think about it logically without attacking it from a way I would attack from an audit perspective, right? [01:15:35] And breaking that question apart. [01:15:37] I hope that helps. [01:15:38] Yeah, it's, I was looking more about the mindset, mainly the mindset going on those tough discussions. [01:15:48] Like, like, what do you like, what's your playbook before that kind of preparation? [01:15:56] So you're asking about how do you create a strategy? [01:16:00] No, no, no. [01:16:01] The strategy you could create it. [01:16:03] It's like, it's like, regardless of the audience, it's mainly the mindset. [01:16:08] How do you approach those tough questions around when you have that kind of resistance around change, [01:16:15] with that kind of resistance around the importance of cyber within the organization [01:16:19] and how you flip the audience perspective on those risks? [01:16:24] From a mindset perspective. [01:16:30] I don't know about you, but it's hard. [01:16:33] A zebra doesn't change its stripes. [01:16:35] I mean, it's hard unless they're educated and they go through that experience. [01:16:40] I'm dealing with it with an asset fund right now that they're MSP and they didn't, they thought [01:16:48] everything was okay and they didn't know what they didn't know. [01:16:52] And they, they assume that everybody was, you know, doing what they were doing. [01:16:56] Everything was going fine. [01:16:57] And then all of a sudden you have, you know, a number of issues and impacts. [01:17:02] And now there's all this remediation or this blue, this blue, you know, blue teaming perspective [01:17:09] and trying to build a purple culture around that. [01:17:12] So, yeah, that's somebody who's going to say something. [01:17:15] No, I was going to say, Mike, I think, I think what Nabil is asking is how do you, how [01:17:20] do you think about it? [01:17:22] And then how do you approach it? [01:17:24] Just how do you approach those conversations? [01:17:26] Like, how do you frame it in your mind to, to be able to influence those individuals that [01:17:31] you need to then sort of influence in one way or another? [01:17:34] I think that's what Nabil is getting at when he says the mindset. [01:17:37] Is that, is that right, Nabil? [01:17:39] Did I get it? [01:17:40] Correct. [01:17:41] Yeah. [01:17:42] So like, how do you, when you, when you approach that, that difficult conversation or that [01:17:46] challenging conversation, I think what Nabil wants to know is like, how do you sort of [01:17:50] internalize that, figure out how you're going to approach it? [01:17:53] And then execute on that. [01:17:57] Yeah. [01:17:58] More like, how do you become them and envision why are they asking that question? [01:18:04] Right. [01:18:04] So kind of role play there. [01:18:07] Yeah. [01:18:07] And I think, I think, Mike, I'll help you out a little bit. [01:18:10] I think what I heard you say and some of what you mentioned, right? [01:18:14] I think, you know, you're, you're trying to understand the business ideas and the business [01:18:20] objectives and trying to, in a certain, to a certain degree, educate them and help them [01:18:25] understand the risk. [01:18:28] They're associated with whatever it is. [01:18:33] You're trying to get point, whatever, whatever specific point you're trying to get across to them. [01:18:39] You're trying to understand their business objectives, but also help them educate by [01:18:43] educating them on the overall risk so that they can move in one direction or another. [01:18:48] That's what I think I heard you say, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. [01:18:51] Yeah, no, no, that's, I'm, I'm trying to think of the problem. [01:18:55] Usually it's, there's a problem. [01:18:56] And then how do we solve or address that problem, fix it? [01:19:00] And then, you know, can not make that type of mistake again, usually. [01:19:06] So that's, that's how I was taking that question or more of a, Hey, we got this problem. [01:19:11] They don't understand why we have to be secure. [01:19:14] How do we change their mindset? [01:19:16] And then how do we, usually in my mind, it's like, oh, how do we go for more budget? [01:19:20] Right? [01:19:20] So what do we need to do? [01:19:22] Do we need more analysts? [01:19:23] Do we need more tools? [01:19:25] Do we, what do we need? [01:19:26] Do we need more people, you know, create, you know, L1, L2s, right? [01:19:31] Are we getting enough ingested log that we can actually, I mean, there's so many different [01:19:36] ways I think about that type of question. [01:19:38] But when I hear that somebody's not, you know, they don't want to really put a security or [01:19:45] security is not important. [01:19:47] I kind of get defensive and, and I start thinking, you know, from, from my critical infrastructure [01:19:53] days, I think about it that way. [01:19:56] Great. [01:19:59] Thanks guys. [01:20:00] Thanks. [01:20:01] Thanks for popping up on stage. [01:20:02] Sorry. [01:20:04] I went to James and Warner went down the runway. [01:20:06] Ryan, thanks for popping up again. [01:20:08] And do you want to ask or contribute to the conversation? [01:20:12] As always, I think I've been asked this question pretty routinely. [01:20:16] Mike, at what point did you realize or acknowledge, you know, that you might've wanted to be a CISO [01:20:23] and then how long before, and I'm sorry, I'm in a noisier place than I might've been before. [01:20:27] So I hope you can hear me. [01:20:28] How long before, you know, between realizing that that might've been something you wanted [01:20:32] to do, did it take you to, to become that CISO? [01:20:37] And what steps did you have to take in order to prepare yourself? [01:20:40] Or did you kind of kind of get there and then be like, Hey, I'm here before really saying [01:20:45] this thing I wanted. [01:20:47] I don't know if that makes sense. [01:20:48] Yeah, no, it definitely makes sense. [01:20:50] It's, you know, again, you know, building, building a sock inside a commodities trading [01:20:56] company and starting to work that and really specializing and understanding intrusion detection, [01:21:03] host-based intrusion prevention and, and firewalls and analyzing access list and, and then working [01:21:11] like doing, you know, more firewall engineering work at that time, doing optimization and finding [01:21:17] at that time with the, the, the little tools I had, which is pretty much notepad and notepad [01:21:22] plus plus and copy paste access list and rewriting those and, and, and seeing the, any, you know, [01:21:29] where can I eliminate access, right? [01:21:31] Is where are the, any, any rules and then how can I, you know, find, you know, tune that, [01:21:37] right? [01:21:37] I think engineering that, I think that's what they call it and actually doing the work. [01:21:43] And I found the passion for, you know, working with people and helping them learn how to [01:21:50] build IPS and firewalls and, and working in security and endpoints and so forth. [01:21:57] I, I moved into it and it became that and then evolved into what they're calling the virtual [01:22:06] CISO now, because I get to touch many different organizations, many people. [01:22:12] I get to advise security teams as well too. [01:22:16] So I think the role evolves into the business side. [01:22:21] I think I just kept moving that way. [01:22:23] Not that I woke up and said, Hey, I'm going to be the commander in chief of, you know, I, [01:22:28] I always just, you know, found myself to be the guy. [01:22:31] How, what do I need to do? [01:22:32] How do, how do I refresh this, this system? [01:22:35] You know, how do we rip out, you know, this legacy switch and put in a new switch and, [01:22:40] you know, cat OS versus iOS and, you know, and that kind of stuff. [01:22:44] So networking gear and always hands-on type of thing. [01:22:48] And it just morphed into CISO and people looked at me that way. [01:22:53] And, and that was, that was it basically. [01:22:55] It was not, there was no anything, you know, other than just a lot of work, [01:23:01] working hard and working smart and making some, some good decisions to stick it out. [01:23:07] So, so then I got to say two things on that, right? [01:23:12] So one is before, I don't know if you saw in the chat, I wanted to say, [01:23:15] I did Italian honors. [01:23:18] So happy to hear someone who can speak a little language. [01:23:23] Again, not sure if you can hear me because it is pretty noisy in here, [01:23:25] but the thing I was going to say, so then where do you go next? [01:23:27] Like what's next? [01:23:28] What's, what's like the next goal? [01:23:30] What's, what are you working towards on the horizon? [01:23:32] Yeah. [01:23:33] So the next goal is to help every company in the world look at, you know, [01:23:41] autonomous and, and solving those problems and then taking this organization [01:23:47] into what I want in my heart is to IPO and, and just become even more. [01:23:56] And look, we, we all read Mandy and Google 5.3 billion and so forth. [01:24:03] And I like, this happens for good companies, good cultures, right? [01:24:08] Building those cultures and getting those people and, and the more lives I can touch [01:24:13] and, and help them make money for their future and their kids future and so forth. [01:24:19] I mean, that's what's next for me. [01:24:21] I mean, if I can have 20 companies that I build over the next God knows how many years, [01:24:28] remember superhuman going to live forever, 180 years, right? [01:24:32] This is all coming. [01:24:33] Somebody's going to 3d etch my, my heart, my arteries and my spine one day. [01:24:38] So I'm going to, I just got to keep the brain intact and, you know, we'll keep going. [01:24:42] But yeah, that's, that, that's my passion. [01:24:45] It's just taking it, taking the rocket ship, you know, to the next planet. [01:24:52] I just got my RFIG chip implanted on my wrist so that I can make payments really quickly. [01:24:58] Why are you laughing, Mike? [01:24:59] That's not a thing? [01:25:01] That's not a thing? [01:25:01] I love it. [01:25:02] I love it. [01:25:03] Actually, I do know somebody that. [01:25:04] Come take all your data. [01:25:05] There you go. [01:25:06] I actually do know somebody that, that did that. [01:25:08] They were, they're significantly younger than I am, but they did do that. [01:25:13] Something that they wanted to do. [01:25:15] So when I, so when I go to Trader Joe's and I flip my, my Apple watch wrist and I tap it and it pays, that's not the same thing. [01:25:23] It is. [01:25:24] It actually, it is. [01:25:25] I, I look, I, I'm not saying I understand the logic behind it, but I'm, I'm just saying that I do know somebody that has done it. [01:25:34] Wow. [01:25:35] I love it. [01:25:35] Look, it is a 921 Eastern time. [01:25:40] Go ahead. [01:25:41] Hussein. [01:25:42] Yeah. [01:25:42] So Mike, a question for you. [01:25:45] How did you transition out of, you know, the brokerage space into the commercial side that you're in? [01:25:50] You know, I met when you were at Trapax and a few other organizations. [01:25:53] So how was that transition like? [01:25:55] Oh, that was interesting. [01:25:58] Right. [01:25:58] It's what happened was when you're hanging around VCs and startup and companies that are on the private markets and IPOs and early startups and watching these founders go from, you know, $10 valuation to $6 billion in under 10 years or so. [01:26:18] And now it's getting crazy. [01:26:19] There's so much money valuation out there. [01:26:22] It was scary at first. [01:26:24] I got to say, I missed the lights and glamour. [01:26:28] It was, there was something about, you know, every, every CEO in Israel come and have a meeting with me. [01:26:36] And then now I flip it the other way and I'm on the other side and I'm learning, you know, all the, what happens, you know, from a sales cycle from start to finish too. [01:26:46] And I'm trying to understand that. [01:26:47] And I'm trying to add value to companies to solve those problems. [01:26:51] You know, especially like, you know, Hussein, you know, threat detection response and that environment. [01:26:56] So, and then it's like, nobody wants to hear from you. [01:27:00] Like you're a different person. [01:27:02] So it was definitely a change for me. [01:27:04] It was definitely a wake up call. [01:27:06] And I had to take the ego out of myself and say, okay, I'm no longer, you know, at the crossroads of Times Square, Wall Street, right? [01:27:17] It's, I'm no more opening, closing the market, you know, like with, you know, a national October security awareness month and so forth. [01:27:26] It was totally different for me. [01:27:29] And then it kind of felt lonely, but then slowly I progressed. [01:27:33] Then I got to meet some great people. [01:27:35] I got to help some great people and build my network. [01:27:38] And, and yeah, so I think that was, that was some of the transition. [01:27:43] And I would never go back to that, you know, what I've learned. [01:27:47] So, Mike, being a VC, so how does that work from a liability standpoint for companies that you provide services to? [01:27:59] Do they absolve you of that? [01:28:01] Do they have to take on some other D&O insurance, direct and officer's insurance? [01:28:07] How does that work technically? [01:28:09] No, so no, not actually. [01:28:11] So what it does is it gives me the ability to work within those organizations for more strategizing and taking bets and things like that. [01:28:22] So I wouldn't say so much evangelizing, but in, in, in that capacity, because a lot of times we're finding organizations need help. [01:28:34] They're, they're, they're trying to try everything and figure out what works. [01:28:37] And, and so, you know, horizon three gives me that ability to go out there and, and educate those folks. [01:28:45] And so it's, it's, it's, it's not that I'm, I'm, you know, taking the whole entire risk platform, breaking it apart and re rebuilding that. [01:28:55] So it's, it's, it's a little bit different. [01:28:59] Interesting. [01:29:00] Interesting. [01:29:01] Interesting. [01:29:04] Moderators, any, any, any last questions? [01:29:06] If not, I'll ask, I'll ask Mike one of my last few questions. [01:29:10] Lisa Beth has been kind of quiet this evening. [01:29:15] I'm surprised. [01:29:20] So like that. [01:29:20] It's been one of those kind of Wednesdays, but it's been a good night with you, Mike. [01:29:25] I'm really thankful that you have been here with us in this and helping to share. [01:29:31] One of the questions that I did have is what's the best book you're reading right now? [01:29:36] You said you're an avid reader. [01:29:38] What would you recommend to everybody? [01:29:42] Oh, man. [01:29:44] I mean, I think I'm reading three books right now. [01:29:48] I just got to go into some of my books. [01:29:52] It depends. [01:29:54] I mean, everybody likes something different. [01:29:57] Believe it or not, I read, I just finished reading through Money Master, you know, the game. [01:30:04] So little Tony Robbins there. [01:30:06] So I read through that. [01:30:07] That was a long read. [01:30:09] And I'm still, again, I always pull nuggets out of some of the financial stuff. [01:30:14] I can always do better, right? [01:30:16] I am always told, you know, max out your 401k and all that kind of stuff. [01:30:19] So I think Tony Robbins puts a good perspective for people, even if you have no financial experience and you want to take some money and how does it compound and so forth. [01:30:32] I finished Superhuman. [01:30:34] I finished Superhuman. [01:30:35] I don't know if anybody knows Dave Espray. [01:30:39] He's the founder, CEO of Bulletproof. [01:30:42] I think we all had Bulletproof Coffee. [01:30:44] That's how I actually found this book, Superhuman, because I was doing some searches on coffee on Instagram. [01:30:51] And he kept popping up, popping up. [01:30:53] And it's like this coffee with ghee or grass-fed butter and this kind of thing. [01:31:00] So that was good. [01:31:03] The Four Winds, I think that was a good book. [01:31:06] And I finished up Autonomic Habits. [01:31:13] So that was an interesting read, too. [01:31:17] So I try to – like my wife reads a lot of mystery. [01:31:23] But I have a hard time reading stuff where I can't learn something. [01:31:28] I don't know if it's just how I work, but I need to learn something from the books I read. [01:31:34] And that gives me enjoyment. [01:31:37] Even though, you know, my wife said, stick a needle in my eye type of thing. [01:31:40] Like she needs to read, you know, mysteries and murder mysteries and Mary Higgins Clark. [01:31:46] But not me. [01:31:47] It's like I want to, you know, read something where I have to learn and something that's interesting. [01:31:53] And, you know, health for some reason outside of cyber and technology, health keeps – like I can read through a health book much faster than I could read, you know, a book. [01:32:04] Like on money for some reason. [01:32:06] So hopefully that answers the book question. [01:32:10] I think that's terrific. [01:32:13] It has been such a pleasure to have you here tonight. [01:32:16] So thanks for answering that question. [01:32:18] Yeah. [01:32:18] Yeah. [01:32:20] Yeah. [01:32:20] I added a few of those books on my wish list, on my Audible wish list. [01:32:23] So thanks. [01:32:24] Thanks, Lisa Beth, friend. [01:32:25] Thanks, Mike, for adding to my collection of books while I'm reading. [01:32:30] Or actually listening as they get read to me. [01:32:34] Mike, what high school did you go to in the Bronx? [01:32:37] I'm a graduate of Christopher Columbus High School. [01:32:40] Oh, you went to Columbus. [01:32:43] All right. [01:32:43] All right. [01:32:44] I'm not going to say the nickname for Columbus. [01:32:46] But it is Christopher Columbus. [01:32:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:32:48] I know what you're going to say. [01:32:52] Oh, man. [01:32:52] I remember hitting – I remember hitting a baseball to the wall over there in Columbus. [01:32:59] Yeah. [01:32:59] Good times in high school. [01:33:00] All right. [01:33:00] Yep. [01:33:01] Yep, yep, yep. [01:33:01] Mike, so I usually ask this question of our guests, and I like to close with this one, but it's the – what's the one piece of advice that you would give to the younger Mike? [01:33:17] What is it and why? [01:33:20] Oh, the younger Mike. [01:33:23] What piece of advice? [01:33:27] I don't know, man. [01:33:28] Communicate, appreciate, love. [01:33:35] You know, like for some people on here that know me, like in real life, when I say real life, like people who interact with me, there might be some people here. [01:33:47] It's like I'd give you a shirt off my back, right? [01:33:50] Continue to keep giving the shirt off your back. [01:33:53] Watch your sugar intake, carb intake, right? [01:33:58] We're learning. [01:33:58] Science is teaching us. [01:34:00] You know, maybe it's not so much cholesterol. [01:34:02] It's glucose, the sugar, and we're learning more about, you know, cells and the mitochondria and how cell receptors together are communicating with the food we're eating, right? [01:34:18] You know, growing up, you know, not having the ability to eat organic, right? [01:34:24] So I would tell my younger self, hey, when you get older, man, you're going to eat from butcher box. [01:34:30] You're going to get a box once a month. [01:34:32] All the greatest steaks you love and the pork chops and the ribs and, you know, you're just going to love it and it's going to be good for you, right? [01:34:39] So those are some of the things, like, I would tell my younger self is, you know, stay healthy. [01:34:46] You know, like I've got off and, you know, binge eat, right? [01:34:51] And eat nervously. [01:34:52] And until you write down, you know, what food you're eating and taking into the temple in your body, it's like, you know, during COVID, I did this experiment myself, actually. [01:35:03] I was eating 27 times a day. [01:35:06] I was putting something in my mouth, going upstairs, down, you know, like this kind of thing. [01:35:10] And, you know, it's not good. [01:35:12] You know, I wasn't giving my body the time to, you know, get rid of that and fast it out. [01:35:18] And, you know, don't be afraid of fasting. [01:35:20] And it's okay to skip a couple meals if you can, if you're not on certain medications that lower your glucose and that kind of thing. [01:35:29] So I would tell my younger self, you know, you don't have to be a glutton. [01:35:33] You don't have to eat everything. [01:35:35] You don't have to go to every event and drink for 12 people, right? [01:35:39] You don't have to be at every dinner, every steak dinner, every wine. [01:35:43] You know, you don't have to do it. [01:35:44] It's okay. [01:35:45] You know, people will still love you for who you are. [01:35:48] I think that's some of the stuff I would tell my younger self. [01:35:52] That's awesome. [01:35:53] And look, that's very practical and very real, very real advice, right? [01:35:58] So I appreciate that. [01:36:00] Look, I definitely appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to spend with us for the past hour and a half. [01:36:06] I know what you used to say, if you missed the conversation, you missed a good one. [01:36:10] But you can go back and listen to the replay because there should be a replay on this one. [01:36:14] So feel free to go back if you missed some earlier parts of the conversation. [01:36:19] And, you know, we do this again every Wednesday. [01:36:21] This is our day before. [01:36:23] Tomorrow will be the year, but we do it every Wednesday. [01:36:25] So this is our anniversary, a one-year anniversary. [01:36:29] So thanks for being our special guest, guest number 53 on the Fireside Chat. [01:36:35] Next Wednesday, we're joined by Pam, who works at Cisco, and she is a CISO advisor. [01:36:45] So that's Pam. [01:36:47] Man, why am I struggling right now? [01:36:49] Pam Linderman. [01:36:49] Linderman. [01:36:51] Linderman, who is a CISO advisor at Cisco. [01:36:54] So join us next week if you're inclined to. [01:36:58] We'll be back here at 8 p.m. Eastern time chatting with Pam. [01:37:01] I got to know Pam while I was getting ready for our big event over there in L.A. [01:37:06] So I had some time to spend with Pam. [01:37:08] So it was a lot of fun. [01:37:10] So I'm sure it's going to be a great conversation. [01:37:12] So, Mods, any final words? [01:37:15] Great to have you here tonight, Michael. [01:37:18] Thanks for coming on. [01:37:19] Thank you. [01:37:20] Thanks, Hussain. [01:37:21] It's a pleasure, man. [01:37:22] I actually miss you guys. [01:37:25] I was thinking about our time at the Shark Tank and, you know, with COVID and stuff. [01:37:32] But I did miss you guys. [01:37:33] And it's so good to hear your voices again. [01:37:35] Thank you. [01:37:36] Welcome back to Shark Tank whenever you're ready, brother. [01:37:39] Yeah, yeah. [01:37:40] We'll be. [01:37:40] We're going to be number one again. [01:37:42] I think we got a Shark Tank coming up, right, Hussain, in a couple of weeks in New York? [01:37:47] It is. [01:37:47] It is, indeed. [01:37:48] Yep. [01:37:48] The exact date escapes me right now, but it is at the Lotus Club, I believe. [01:37:53] So I'll send you all a note and we'll see you at the Shark Tank. [01:37:58] Yeah, that'd be great. [01:37:58] I just want to say thank you, Mike. [01:38:01] This is the first time we've met. [01:38:03] So it's a pleasure meeting you. [01:38:05] And thank you for your transparency and your story. [01:38:07] It was just wonderful to spend the time with you tonight. [01:38:09] Thank you. [01:38:10] No, thank you. [01:38:11] I mean, I love this. [01:38:12] And I can't believe a year has gone by and I was just, here I am, right? [01:38:18] It's, I will be here next Wednesday. [01:38:20] I'll be supporting. [01:38:22] I will continue to grow with this because this is a lot different than I thought it would be. [01:38:27] Thanks, Mike. [01:38:30] Appreciate you taking the time and insights. [01:38:33] Yep. [01:38:34] Yeah. [01:38:35] Mike, I'll say the same thing. [01:38:36] You took us on memory lane, reminding us of older technology, just for folks like myself that are older. [01:38:42] And you talked about your story and you inspired me, inspired all of us and just so grateful. [01:38:49] And who knows, hopefully, knock on wood soon, we can actually meet in person someday. [01:38:54] I would like that. [01:38:54] I have a feeling it would be fantastic. [01:38:58] So again, thanks for sharing your evening with us. [01:38:59] It's made a great impact. [01:39:01] Great, man. [01:39:02] Thank you. [01:39:02] I appreciate the kind words and, you know, inspiring, right? [01:39:07] And I'm blessed to be here with you guys and I'll make it so, Russell, I will make it that I will meet you in person. [01:39:21] That is awesome. [01:39:24] I'm looking forward to trying to meet everybody in person at some point in time. [01:39:27] I got to make my way out to Chicago to say hi to Katie when I go visit maybe the Bears. [01:39:32] Got to get down to Atlanta. [01:39:33] Got to get down to Minnesota. [01:39:35] See you, Vikings, and maybe see Lisa Beth. [01:39:39] We'll take you any time, Thomas. [01:39:41] There we go. [01:39:41] So I'm looking forward to making the rounds. [01:39:44] Hussein, I'm not going to Jersey. [01:39:45] Sorry, buddy. [01:39:46] That's all right. [01:39:47] That's all right. [01:39:48] I'll just play. [01:39:49] Next football season, I'll make you come up there. [01:39:53] Well, that'll be awesome. [01:39:54] I'm sure it'll be fun. [01:39:58] Ryan, you want to say something before we wrap? [01:40:00] Yeah, obviously Texas. [01:40:02] And just, Mike, I don't know if you see the chat. [01:40:03] I just try to say arriba de la. [01:40:06] But no, hello, Texas. [01:40:08] I just want to make sure I voice that. [01:40:09] It's very central. [01:40:11] Everyone can get there. [01:40:12] If you go to Houston or Dallas or San Antonio, I will commute. [01:40:15] But very proud of the, you know, I'm from New York. [01:40:17] But if you come down, you got to come to Texas. [01:40:19] We got to go to the Lone Star State of Texas. [01:40:24] We will definitely make our way out there as well. [01:40:28] So, Mike, I'll leave you for the final words. [01:40:30] Bring us home. [01:40:32] No, this is incredible. [01:40:33] Thank you. [01:40:34] I, you know, I feel like I'm being roasted in such an honorable way. [01:40:41] And I'm appreciative. [01:40:42] And Tomas, thank you. [01:40:43] And when you reached out and you said we'd love to have you too, it was like, wow, that's awesome. [01:40:48] Because, you know, I just, I wasn't sure what this is all about. [01:40:52] And, you know, this clubhouse stuff. [01:40:54] But it just sounds like it's just a bunch of great people having great conversations. [01:41:00] And that's it. [01:41:01] It wasn't like Zoom. [01:41:02] It wasn't like Teams. [01:41:04] You know, it just felt like I could be myself. [01:41:07] And I thank you guys for giving me the ability to open up and go back to my eight-year-old self. [01:41:12] And, you know, I don't even think about that much. [01:41:14] Right? [01:41:14] I'm focusing on my daughter and, you know, getting her transitioned. [01:41:18] And I'm truly blessed to have some of the greatest peers in this business. [01:41:24] And I've watched a lot of you over the years as well, Tomas and Hussein specifically. [01:41:32] You know, and it's like you guys keep giving back. [01:41:34] And, you know, your names keep popping up. [01:41:36] And I'm honored to be in your network. [01:41:40] So thank you. [01:41:42] No, thank you, Mike. [01:41:43] And thank you, everybody, for tuning in. [01:41:46] Mike, it's been a pleasure. [01:41:47] I'll see you soon, my friend. [01:41:49] And everybody have a good evening. [01:41:51] Have a good rest of your week. [01:41:52] We'll see you all next week. [01:41:53] 8 p.m. is the time. [01:41:54] Don't forget. [01:41:55] Cheers. [01:41:55] Bye, everybody. [01:41:56] Thank you. [01:41:56] Cheers. [01:41:57] Bye. [01:41:57] Thanks again. [01:41:57] Bye, guys. [01:42:02] Bye, everyone. [01:42:03] Bye.