Fireside Chat w/Bob Henderson, Founder & CEO @ ISG

[00:00:00] Thank you everybody for joining. [00:00:30] Thank you. [00:01:00] I'm doing great. [00:01:01] How about yourself? [00:01:02] Doing all right. [00:01:03] Just trying to get the room set up. [00:01:05] We'll get started in a few minutes. [00:01:08] Sure. [00:01:10] Some reason it's not letting me back up now. [00:01:14] Hang on. [00:01:17] I might stay in. [00:01:19] I'm going to close my app and restart it. [00:01:21] Okay. [00:01:21] Okay. [00:01:21] Thank you. [00:01:51] Thank you. [00:02:21] Thank you. [00:02:23] But thanks everybody for taking the time out of your busy day, busy schedule, middle [00:02:29] of the week. [00:02:30] What are we talking about today? [00:02:31] Is it some networking? [00:02:32] We'll do some networking. [00:02:33] We'll talk about some, maybe some entrepreneurship, Rob? [00:02:38] Oh, yeah. [00:02:39] Yeah. [00:02:40] You do have your own business. [00:02:42] I can give you some thoughts on how I think about that, how I look at it. [00:02:46] Awesome. [00:02:47] Russell, give me one more topic. [00:02:49] What's the third topic that we want to pin up at the top here? [00:02:54] Maybe you can think of it. [00:02:56] We'll leave that for now. [00:02:57] Yeah, I found this one. [00:02:58] All right. [00:02:59] Sounds good. [00:03:00] I think I put two. [00:03:01] There we go. [00:03:02] Right. [00:03:03] Hey, John. [00:03:04] Thanks for popping in. [00:03:05] We'll get started. [00:03:06] Look, we'll get started in a few minutes. [00:03:07] We've got to give some time for the other moderators to join us. [00:03:10] And I'm sure people are starting to get home or do whatever it is that they need to do. [00:03:15] I was out watering the lawn. [00:03:18] I'll just tell you that much because it's a little hot in New York. [00:03:21] It's a little hot in New York and it didn't rain. [00:03:24] I thought it was going to rain yesterday, but it did not rain, which is not a bad thing. [00:03:29] And like the rain means that we don't have a lot of water for the grass. [00:03:39] I'm just going to mute you right quick. [00:03:41] I'm just going to get some background noise for you. [00:03:43] Here we go. [00:03:46] It's been hot here. [00:03:48] Last night we got like a heat warning. [00:03:50] It feels like 105 or something like that in Atlanta. [00:03:53] It's just crazy. [00:03:54] So everything I've done has been inside. [00:03:56] Hot Atlanta. [00:03:58] Yeah, I've never actually been to Atlanta, which is surprising, I'm sure. [00:04:05] But I do need to make my way down there. [00:04:08] And hey, Elizabeth, how are you? [00:04:11] Happy Wednesday. [00:04:14] Happy Wednesday. [00:04:16] Hey, Katie. [00:04:17] Microphone check for you, Katie. [00:04:19] Hello. [00:04:20] Good evening. [00:04:21] Katie, what? [00:04:24] That didn't sound so great. [00:04:26] Katie. [00:04:27] How's it going? [00:04:28] Oh, wait, it didn't. [00:04:29] Wait, it didn't sound good. [00:04:31] This might be my use. [00:04:32] You sound fine, but it didn't sound like Katie. [00:04:35] I didn't get that energy. [00:04:37] Oh, show. [00:04:38] You're right. [00:04:39] And I'm here with my friend, Bob, who knows me from other rooms as well. [00:04:47] I need to bring it. [00:04:48] Sorry. [00:04:49] That's right. [00:04:50] Oh, man. [00:04:51] Sorry, Bob. [00:04:52] I'm bringing it. [00:04:53] No, I'm ready. [00:04:54] I'm ready for tonight. [00:04:55] I'm so excited, actually. [00:04:56] I've been looking forward to this for a while. [00:04:58] Hi, everybody. [00:04:59] I thought we had a deepfake, but now we know what's been looking. [00:05:02] Yeah, it's me. [00:05:03] No, I guess. [00:05:04] I was wondering if this headset worked. [00:05:09] It's one of those regular plug-in kind, but it went through the washing machine, so I wasn't [00:05:16] sure if it was working. [00:05:17] So that's literally why I was like, wait, is it working? [00:05:19] Is it working? [00:05:20] Check, check. [00:05:21] That sounds like an interesting story. [00:05:23] I could just tell you that much. [00:05:25] But yeah, you didn't sound like yourself, Katie, so I had to, you know, let's replay that back. [00:05:31] Hey, Katie. [00:05:32] All right. [00:05:33] So look, it is 8 p.m. Eastern time. [00:05:36] It's the top of the hour. [00:05:37] Why don't we get started? [00:05:38] Before we sort of get to our guest this evening, who is Bob Henderson, who's the founder and CEO [00:05:45] of Intelligence Services Group, IS, I thought it was an M in there. [00:05:50] I don't know why I'm thinking ISMG, but ISG or Intelligence Services Group. [00:05:55] I just want to say a few quick ground rules. [00:05:58] We're going to have a good evening. [00:05:59] We're going to have a good time. [00:06:01] Hey, Neil, thanks for joining us. [00:06:03] We will get you the microphone. [00:06:05] Hey, hey, there it is. [00:06:06] We're going to have a good time. [00:06:08] Let's have a good, healthy conversation. [00:06:10] It's the middle of the week. [00:06:12] I don't know about you all, but I've been on vacation this week, partially because the [00:06:16] office has been closed. [00:06:18] The commissioner closed the office. [00:06:19] Thank you, commissioner. [00:06:21] So the office has been closed for the week. [00:06:23] So we've been taking some summer vacation, which is much needed to recharge and get back [00:06:28] as we start the season soon. [00:06:30] But just very, very quick ground rules. [00:06:33] Thank you, Andrews, if our comments and opinion, at least for the majority of us on stage, are [00:06:37] our own and do not represent our current or prior employers. [00:06:40] So please keep that in mind. [00:06:41] If you do jump on stage to ask a question of our guests, that is Bob Henderson this evening. [00:06:46] We ask that you don't try to sell us on any product or solution. [00:06:49] Save that for another time, another place, maybe even another day. [00:06:52] I do know that Bob has his own company and we are going to get into that. [00:06:56] But let's really focus in on his journey. [00:06:58] Let's focus in on how did he get to where he is today and save your latest and greatest solution for another time and a place to sell us on that idea. [00:07:09] And then last but not least, oh man. [00:07:13] Oh, last but not least, about 30 to 40 minutes or so, we'll open up for questions for the audience. [00:07:18] So you can raise your hand about 30, 40 minutes, around 830, 840. [00:07:22] We'll prompt you guys to sort of raise your hand and you can join in on the conversation. [00:07:26] If you do have a question that you want us to ask or you want to prop into the chat and you can't sort of jump up on stage and say it verbally, [00:07:34] just put it in the chat and we'll read it off when we get to that sort of Q&A. [00:07:38] So without further ado, I'll go through introductions. [00:07:41] Bob, we'll leave you for last. [00:07:43] So I'm Tomas Maldonado. [00:07:44] I'm the CISO at the NFL. [00:07:46] Russell, over to you. [00:07:47] Thank you, Tomas. [00:07:48] So excited, Bob, to be able to spend this evening with you and looking forward to what you'll share. [00:07:51] I'm Russell Eubanks, been in cyber for a long time. [00:07:54] The last couple of years, been leading, been running my own company, Security Ever After, where people get into their first CISO job. [00:08:00] Lisa Beth, over to you. [00:08:04] Hey, hey, it's Wednesday. [00:08:06] My name is Lisa Beth Lentini Walker. [00:08:08] I run a compliance ethics and corporate governance consulting firm called Lumen Worldwide Endeavors. [00:08:15] I like to teach. [00:08:17] I like to write things like books. [00:08:20] And I really like Wednesday nights when we all get to be together and talk about the profession and what we're doing to help build a better, stronger profession for the future. [00:08:31] And with that, I'm going to turn it over to my friend Katie. [00:08:34] Katie Hanahan, Hi, everybody. [00:08:36] Good evening. [00:08:37] I'm Katie Hanahan. [00:08:38] I'm the Vice President of Cybersecurity Strategy at IT Savvy. [00:08:41] I also run their VC so program and I am a CISO myself now, which is why I really appreciate being on the stage with people like Russell and Tomas and Anil and Lisa Beth to be able to learn from everyone every day. [00:08:54] As I'm moving into this next stage of my career, I'm really looking forward to this conversation tonight with you. [00:09:00] Bob, welcome tonight and over to you, Anil. [00:09:03] Thanks, Katie. [00:09:04] Looking forward to seeing this conversation with Bob. [00:09:08] Welcome on board. [00:09:09] Anil Varghese, virtual CISO, former five-time CISO and currently serving as a nonprofit board member and co-author of CISO Mentor. [00:09:21] Looking forward again to the great conversation. [00:09:24] Thanks, Bob for carving out the time. [00:09:26] Back to you, Tomas. [00:09:27] Thanks, Anil. [00:09:28] Thanks, moderators. [00:09:29] Look, I'm looking forward to this discussion. [00:09:31] Bob is a regular on our show, several times joining us several weeks in a row, and now we've got him in the hot seat. [00:09:39] Most of us have been fortunate to be on the other side with Bob asking us questions. [00:09:43] So, Bob, I'm looking forward to this conversation. [00:09:46] I'll ask you the standard initial question, but before we get to that question, why don't you introduce yourself? [00:09:52] Tell us a little bit about you and why you're going to take your time and tell us about your origin story. [00:09:59] Yeah. [00:10:00] First, thanks, everyone. [00:10:02] I appreciate you inviting me on. [00:10:04] So I look forward to it. [00:10:06] I run an intelligence services group. [00:10:10] The company is the cybersecurity intelligence firm. [00:10:14] We provide intelligence services, cybersecurity, and we combine those services with specific technologies to help just help our clients be guardians of their data. [00:10:27] Right. And that's what we do. [00:10:29] So my journey, you know, I've been on a lot of these and my journey is going to be completely different from what you ever heard before. [00:10:37] It is not your typical path that I hear everybody in terms of computers and video games when they were young and all that. [00:10:46] I had none of that. [00:10:48] So in fact, about eight years or so ago, people kept asking me because some of them knew my background and they asked me, well, how did you get from that to doing this? [00:10:59] And I actually had to publish my story, but I'll go through it. [00:11:04] And so just hold on. [00:11:07] It's a little different. [00:11:10] Really, in terms of my journey started in being in the workforce when I was 18 years old. [00:11:17] I grew up in central New Jersey. [00:11:20] And back then, the laws in New Jersey legal age was 21. [00:11:28] Well, back then it was Vietnam War was winding down and there was a lot of interest in reducing the legal age from 21 to 18. [00:11:38] And New Jersey did that. [00:11:40] So at that point, I became a street cop. [00:11:42] I became a police officer at 18 years old in New Jersey. [00:11:46] And that's how I started my journey. [00:11:49] The interesting thing is before that is, you know, you may want to ask, well, why did you do that at 18 years old? [00:11:56] Who does that? Right. And what drove you to do that? [00:11:59] And to this day, I still remember there were really two things that happened when I was in my teenage years that stuck with me. [00:12:09] And the first one is we lived next to a family where the young girl had some communicable disease. [00:12:18] And I don't remember exactly what it was. [00:12:21] And the whole town knew whatever. [00:12:24] But they had a pool in the summer and she was drowning. [00:12:27] And they called back then. [00:12:30] They didn't have 911. [00:12:31] So everything went to the police and the police showed up. [00:12:34] And it happens to the officer that showed up. [00:12:37] I think he was a sergeant at the time was my best friend's father. [00:12:41] He knew that this girl had this communicable disease. [00:12:46] He did not hesitate one second to go in and rescue her and give her mouth to mouth for suscitation and brought her back to life from that drowning. [00:12:56] And I witnessed this and I go, who does that? [00:12:59] Oh, my God, that had such an impact on me that that this person would just not even think twice about his own life to go in and rescue this girl. [00:13:08] Everybody knew she had this disease and he did it anyway. [00:13:11] Fortunately, he didn't catch it and he was fine. [00:13:15] And the second event that happened that stuck with me and that really drove me to why I wanted to get in law enforcement and become a cop was my mother was a victim of an armed robbery. [00:13:31] She worked in a drugstore behind the counter. [00:13:34] And one one evening, these guys came in with this is a little crude, but they came in with shotguns and they threw it to the floor and put a shotgun to her head and all that. [00:13:45] And eventually they escaped and she wasn't hurt. [00:13:49] But that had such an impact on me. [00:13:52] And to this day, I remember it where I knew I was scared at first for my mother, but then eventually I was pissed. [00:14:02] I was really annoyed and pissed that somebody would do that. [00:14:05] And so when people ask me, why did you become a cop at 18? [00:14:10] It is those two events that happened in my life that really made me want to become a cop back then, not today, but back then, really to go in and help people. [00:14:22] And it's that that mindset started developing for me in terms of helping people. [00:14:28] And those were the two reasons why I got to become a cop. [00:14:32] And I was a cop at 18 years old. [00:14:34] Right. [00:14:35] So that's kind of where I started. [00:14:37] And during that time, there are a bunch of other stories. [00:14:41] I could I could regale you with stories all night about what I encountered and the things I did. [00:14:46] But could you imagine there you are driving on the road as some 18 year old kid with a badge and gun is pulling you over to give you a ticket? [00:14:54] Really? [00:14:55] So. [00:14:56] I faced a lot of challenges and was in terms of my authority back then. [00:15:04] So I had to develop a mindset and then fit skin and how to deal with that. [00:15:09] And you had to deal with it in the right way where you wouldn't antagonize people. [00:15:14] So those those things really helped develop my mindset in terms of how you deal with people. [00:15:21] And I had a mentor. [00:15:25] And today that meant he eventually became chief of police and that mentor. [00:15:28] He's now retired and he actually serves on my board of advisors for my company. [00:15:35] He was he's probably if you looked up class in the dictionary, it would be his picture. [00:15:41] Class and leadership. [00:15:42] It would be his picture next to it. [00:15:44] And what he instilled upon me and he still a lot number of things in me when I started out. [00:15:50] But these two things stuck with me. [00:15:54] And and what he said, you have to play by the rules. [00:15:59] The bad guys and bad actors don't. [00:16:01] But you took an oath. [00:16:03] You have a responsibility to the people. [00:16:06] You must play by the rules. [00:16:09] And the second thing is that is how you treat people, no matter what their station is in life. [00:16:17] You know, you have the authority to take people's lives away. [00:16:20] You can put them in jail. [00:16:21] You could do a lot of things to them. [00:16:23] So he instilled in me, don't care what their background is. [00:16:29] Don't care how they treat you. [00:16:31] They all must be treated the same. [00:16:33] You can't you can't distinguish between them when you treat them. [00:16:38] And come in contact with them. [00:16:41] So those two things, initially why I got to be a cop and then some of the mentorship that the officer gave me, stuck with me. [00:16:52] And to this day, it sticks with me. [00:16:54] And as later I get on where I am to how I got to today. [00:17:00] And if you look at my profile, I still do a lot of nonprofit work. [00:17:04] You know, as part of you know, I was a vice chairman for United Way back in the day in Florida. [00:17:10] And I do a lot of mentoring today and I do a lot of that. [00:17:14] So that has never left me service to the people and wanting to help people. [00:17:19] But so from there, I ended up in New Jersey State Police Academy, because back then that was the only police academy in New Jersey. [00:17:28] There were no others. [00:17:29] And you probably don't know about the academy, but it's in Seagirt, New Jersey. [00:17:34] It's run by all ex-marines. [00:17:36] It's on the beach. [00:17:38] And it was brutal. [00:17:40] It was absolutely brutal going through that. [00:17:43] I think we went for 16 weeks, 18 weeks, something like that you had to go through. [00:17:50] But I learned a lot. [00:17:51] I learned a lot about myself and really morphed into who I thought where I wanted to be as a person and as a cop. [00:18:01] And so I ended up in a police academy. [00:18:03] I think we had 140, 145 people. [00:18:06] And I finished fifth in my class. [00:18:09] And so I was pretty proud of that, about that. [00:18:12] So over the years, when I was a cop, you know, you always ran into things that happened. [00:18:20] Back then, it was a disruptive time in our society. [00:18:25] Actually, not too much different than what it is today. [00:18:29] I mean, there were constant riots going on and everything. [00:18:33] And I remember this one time where there was this huge bar bra. [00:18:37] And I mean, it was 50, 60 people. [00:18:42] And it poured out into the street. [00:18:45] And of course, being a street cop, I got called to help go quell that. [00:18:50] And during the process of calling that and having to arrest people and struggle with people, there was an individual just getting ready to put a knife in my back. [00:19:00] Just getting ready. [00:19:02] And the bartender saw that and she took a whiskey bottle and hit him in the head with it before he did that. [00:19:09] And I'll never forget that because as a street cop and even today, building those relationships, treating people good was so important. [00:19:22] And I remember this bartender, there were incidents where she got jammed up and I treated her with so much respect and whatever. [00:19:28] And she remembered that. [00:19:30] She remembered that. [00:19:31] So when this event happened and she did that, I was like, wow. [00:19:34] So that's another one of those events that sticks in my mind about why it's so important to build those relationships and those people with people, no matter where they come from, no matter what they do in society, no matter what their background is, it's important to do that and make them feel important. [00:19:54] And for me, I did. And at that point, really, it saved my life and really did. [00:20:01] So what I'll do is I'll give you one or two other stories because that really is the way for me to to let you know who I am and how I develop my mindset to where I am today. [00:20:16] And so I think it's important I do that through a couple of stories because hopefully you'll understand it. [00:20:23] And there was another incident that happened. [00:20:26] This woman was having a baby. [00:20:28] And there was no time to wait for the rescue ambulance to come. [00:20:33] There was just no time. [00:20:34] So I had my partner drive and there we were driving to the hospital. [00:20:39] I was in the backseat and deliver that baby. [00:20:42] All right. [00:20:43] Simply because there was no time. [00:20:45] And there are many incidents like that that happened. [00:20:49] And what that created in me was the ability to make split second decisions that had to be right. [00:20:57] They couldn't be wrong. [00:20:58] Right. [00:20:59] So you just don't do that overnight. [00:21:02] You have to be in those incidents and and face those times to make those decisions. [00:21:10] Unfortunately, I did. [00:21:12] So I remember that because that was one of those first incidents I had that helped me develop that decision making. [00:21:19] Right. [00:21:20] Where. [00:21:21] There was no time. [00:21:22] You've got to make the decision and make the right decision. [00:21:25] And that was one of those. [00:21:29] A second time. [00:21:30] Where. [00:21:31] Most of you are probably not from central Jersey. [00:21:34] You don't know how the the waterway and the canal systems work there. [00:21:38] But in the old days, they had the canals where they would have barges on there to take goods up and down the canal. [00:21:49] But that a towpath where they would the mules would pull the barges on the river going by that towpath and that river, the levels of water had to be regulated. [00:22:00] So they built locks and those locks every so often would control the flow of the water. [00:22:07] And on the other side of the lock, there'd be a drop about 12 feet before the water would go down again and keep going. [00:22:14] Well, I got called that some kid, the old kid on his bicycle, went over that 12 foot cement barrier into the locks and into the water and he was drowning. [00:22:25] So I immediately got there. I just went out thinking. [00:22:30] I just tore off all my police gun and belt and radio and all that my shoes and I jumped in. [00:22:35] And the reason I did that is because I knew that the current of the water would carry him down to the end of locks. [00:22:44] And at the end of locks, there used to be wooden pillars that would act as a gate, huge wooden pillars. [00:22:50] And over the years they disintegrated, but they were under the water and you couldn't see him. [00:22:55] So if this kid got stuck in those wooden pillars, he would not come back up. [00:23:00] He would be stuck on the water and drown. [00:23:02] So I just jumped in and I swam after him and I grabbed him and was able to get him past that. [00:23:09] And to the bank where the rescue people were waiting and they took him to the hospital. [00:23:15] Again, I tell those stories as an example of the impact they had on me and how it changed my way of thinking and how I look at things. [00:23:27] Even today, how I look at things and respond to things. [00:23:30] That was another one of those examples is I had to make a split decision and it had to be the right decision. [00:23:37] Yeah, I could have waited. I could have waited for the rescue squad to get there maybe 10 more minutes, but that kid probably would have dropped. [00:23:43] And I couldn't do that. There was just no way I can do that. [00:23:46] So that's another example. [00:23:50] One more example. And then I'll get on to what I did in Washington after I left New Jersey. [00:23:58] This is, you know, I didn't think about this really to a few years ago. [00:24:03] I was driving on patrol. [00:24:06] I think it was 19 at the time, maybe 20 just before I got promoted to detective is. [00:24:13] I was driving past this gas station and people were yelling and screaming guy was in the front of the gas station. [00:24:20] He was having a heart attack and he needed CPR. Well, again, I couldn't wait. [00:24:24] I ran over there. I had CPR training. [00:24:26] So I was able to put him on a bench because he got to have something hard on the individual back then to be able to do CPR and compressions and all that. [00:24:35] And luckily I brought him back to life. [00:24:37] I brought him back to life. The interesting thing about that, he was a priest. [00:24:43] He was a priest. And I swear to this day, he's my guardian angel because of all the things that I had been through and the successes I have had. [00:24:52] You know, I said, well, I just wonder, is that my guardian angel? [00:24:57] And I brought him back to life. Anyway, I thought that was an interesting story. [00:25:01] So after a couple of years, I was aggressive on the street, protecting people, making a lot of arrests and got promoted to detective and started working on undercover narcotics. [00:25:14] And I started building a lot of big drug cases. And in fact, when I wrote that article about myself a number of years ago and posted on LinkedIn, I actually posted a copy of an editorial newspapers wrote about me and what I was doing in terms of fighting those battles on the street. [00:25:39] And so, again, in order to be successful in doing those type of things and getting those type of criminals off the street and being able to do an investigation, you have to develop informants. [00:25:56] Right. You don't do it without informants. Today, it's a little different. [00:26:00] There's more technology and digital forensics and everything. Back then it didn't exist. [00:26:06] So you you had to build informants and relationships. [00:26:11] And I was really good at that. I learned real early on how important that was building those relationships. Right. [00:26:18] And the thing that stuck out to me and I tell people today, people still don't get it, is you need to do what you say you're going to do. [00:26:30] And you need to do it when you say you're going to do it because it was that that mindset and that what I portrayed to those informants where they trusted me. [00:26:42] Right. So they trusted me. Once you build that trust. [00:26:46] And then you know, I think that's the best thing, magical things happen. [00:26:49] And there's no different than today building that trust with my clients or my coworkers or others. [00:26:55] You have to build that trust. And that's one of the premises I use. [00:26:59] Do what you say you're going to do and do it when you say you're going to do it. [00:27:03] And that's so important, but it seems to get lost. People don't realize the importance of that. [00:27:08] So those events and because of the media was paying attention to me and writing editorials about what I was doing, it got the notice of people in Washington. [00:27:22] And so eventually I ended up in Washington with the Justice Department and we were doing a task force that that I was assigned to. [00:27:36] And that task force, we were chartered with back to deal with global cartels and organized crime and all of that and really targeting them and back in the early 70s and mid 70s. [00:27:51] And that was really a lot going on in that space today. [00:27:56] Not so much. It's a different type of organized crime. [00:27:59] But these were crime families from Italy, whatever global cartels we had to deal with. [00:28:06] And I was in the middle of that and we did that. [00:28:09] And it was fascinating. It was great work. [00:28:12] And another thing I learned through that is the importance of connecting the dots. [00:28:20] And and when I talk to people today in cybersecurity, I asked them about that. [00:28:25] Do you know how to connect the dots? Do you understand how important is connected in the world? [00:28:28] How important is connected in the dots in terms of cyber threats and all that? [00:28:31] You have to understand how to do that. It's no different. [00:28:34] And so we we learned and I learned very quickly of how to connect the dots to get where you wanted to go to get the right evidence to get to the right people. [00:28:44] And fortunately, I'd be able to introduce them to our penal system. [00:28:49] And I did that. And so that was another thing that kind of had an impact on me and stayed with me to this day is being able to connect the dots. [00:29:02] So building all that mindset, I also realized in the early 80s or whatever, computers were starting really to come on, come on scene and computer forensics, not digital forensics, but computer forensics was coming on scene. [00:29:22] You know, before that we didn't have forensics or anything that it was just other means we use in terms of electronic intelligence, signal intelligence and other means we use to do what we had to do. [00:29:33] But, you know, I was so enamored and I really wanted to understand and get into computers and technology. [00:29:42] And even though what I was doing with the government, most people would pay money to go see a movie about what I was doing and I understood that. [00:29:52] But, you know, I did it. It was great. [00:29:55] It wasn't much money back then. Honestly, you didn't make much money. [00:29:59] But but what you did was fascinating. [00:30:02] So I said, you know what, I'm going to take a risk here and I just really want to get into the computer field. [00:30:08] So I decided to leave. [00:30:11] And if you remember back at that time, AT&T was a regulated monopoly up until the early 80s. [00:30:19] They were then allowed to break. [00:30:22] They were broken up and they were allowed to form three separate companies. [00:30:26] And one of those company was called AT&T Information Systems. [00:30:31] And they were now a competitive company, no longer regulated. [00:30:37] And so they had to start out and they had to build entire infrastructure networks, whatever, for a 30,000 people company back then. [00:30:48] And they were just hiring like crazy, bringing people in. [00:30:51] And of course, you had to take the test. [00:30:53] So through some contacts, I found out about this opportunity at AT&T in Florida. [00:30:58] And there I always want to go to Florida, get out of the cold water. [00:31:02] So this would be great. This will work. [00:31:04] So I went and took the test. I passed. I got in. [00:31:07] And really learned about networking and engineering. [00:31:12] Now, when I first got there, people would talk about modems like a modem. [00:31:16] What's a modem? What's a modem? I thought it was another street name for methamphetamine. [00:31:19] I didn't know. Right. [00:31:21] So, but I learned quickly about, again, network engineering and protocols and data centers and front end processors and applications and all that. [00:31:34] And so when AT&T Information Systems was formed, they created a new technology. [00:31:44] It was called XNA, Extended Network Architecture. [00:31:48] And I got involved with that. [00:31:50] And over the next, I think it was five years, I was promoted five levels in five years. [00:31:57] And I became responsible as head general manager for the network design engineering organization. [00:32:03] And it was based on that XNA architecture where we took the best of IBM system network architecture out of the mainframes and X25 packet switching. [00:32:15] And we were able to combine them because we wanted the users to have a virtual screen, which never existed before. [00:32:23] And with the old architecture and the IBM mainframe is doing the switching between data center. [00:32:30] It just didn't work. [00:32:31] So this new this new architecture was created and I got involved in that. [00:32:38] And eventually when AT&T was going back combining, I had to write the business case. [00:32:51] Okay, now that we did this AT&T Information Systems, we want the rest of the AT&T to go to XNA because it was just an incredible technology. [00:33:03] Oh, and by the way, security back then was nothing but RACAF, right? [00:33:06] That's what security was. [00:33:08] There really wasn't a security. [00:33:10] So they made a decision. [00:33:13] XNA was the leading architecture and network. [00:33:16] And I wrote the business case to do that because I got so ingrained in the technology and my team. [00:33:24] We were implementing it and deploying it and engineering it. [00:33:28] So they asked me to write the business case and I did. [00:33:32] And it was about a 35, $40 million project back then to put this all together throughout AT&T. [00:33:39] And I remember going to New York where AT&T was headquartered back then and presenting the business case to the chairman of the board. [00:33:48] And I don't remember if it was Bob Allen or whoever. [00:33:50] I don't remember who it was back then. [00:33:52] And they said, yes, this is what we're doing. [00:33:55] And he says, oh, by the way, and you're doing it. [00:33:58] I go, okay. [00:33:59] So we took that on. [00:34:01] My team took it on and my team obviously expanded. [00:34:04] I had about 25 direct reports. [00:34:07] And then all the other areas throughout the country, AT&T was very structured regionally back then. [00:34:16] I think they had six separate regions. [00:34:18] And they had like regional VPs who were gods for their region. [00:34:22] Nothing ever got done in their regions without their say so. [00:34:26] But, you know, they're no longer a regulated company. [00:34:30] You're in a competitive business now. [00:34:32] So you had to change your mindset. [00:34:34] Right. [00:34:35] And fortunately, because of how I did things and how I looked at things, I think that helped me because I just have to be in the right place at the right time where that attitude and that mindset was needed because they had to get out of that regulated mindset. [00:34:51] You know, you're regulated, you're only allowed to make so much money. [00:34:54] And after that, it doesn't matter. [00:34:55] Who cares? [00:34:56] So there really wasn't much incentive for innovation and all that or saving money because you can only make so much. [00:35:06] That all changed. [00:35:07] So my team took it on and I had matrix management of all these people who is in data centers throughout North America and all that. [00:35:17] And I remember this one time because, you know, you have to go do a pony show. [00:35:22] You have to go to every region and present to them what the project is about. [00:35:26] And I did that. [00:35:27] And I still remember going to Chicago and presenting this to the executives. [00:35:34] I still remember this. [00:35:36] The one woman standing up, she goes, you know, I know you're here on a mission from God, but we're not doing it. [00:35:44] And I kind of snickered. [00:35:46] I go, yeah, you're going to do it. [00:35:48] Little did she know she was going to be out of a job because her function wasn't needed anymore. [00:35:53] But so that also contributed to to how I get things done and how I look at things. [00:36:02] Right. [00:36:03] And so I just remember that story and what I did. [00:36:07] And also, you know, you don't you don't have to be in technology. [00:36:11] You didn't have to be in technology today. [00:36:13] There's a lot of discussion. [00:36:15] You've got to have experience in cybersecurity. [00:36:18] You don't. [00:36:19] You really don't. [00:36:20] You should focus on more introspection of who you are. [00:36:25] What is your mindset and what skills do you have that you can apply in the cybersecurity space? [00:36:32] And so I took all those things and those experiences that I had from being a street cop, from fighting global cartels and what I was doing. [00:36:41] And I learned a lot of things about myself and I learned a lot of good traits that contributed to my DNA and my mindset that I applied in business. [00:36:53] And I just happened to be in the right business at the right time where that's what was needed. [00:36:58] And it worked. [00:36:59] Right. [00:37:00] So I did that and it was quite successful. [00:37:05] My my team actually won the the National Directors Award because we finished the project. [00:37:11] I think it was scheduled for three years and they finished six months ahead of schedule and under budget. [00:37:17] So I still have the plaque here somewhere for my team. [00:37:22] And, you know, yeah, I was part of it, but it was my team and what the work they did to achieve that was incredible. [00:37:29] And that was such working at AT&T for me, even to this day, I have never met a better, smarter group of people in technology anywhere. [00:37:42] Even today, I have those people back then were just geniuses and great people in terms of what they were doing with technology was incredible. [00:37:51] So. [00:37:52] That's where I started getting into computers and learning network design and engineering and what that meant. [00:37:59] And, you know, I did all that. [00:38:01] So eventually. [00:38:03] We had to hire because the project was so massive, you know, we had to hire consultants, right, to hire people. [00:38:11] And to help us do this. [00:38:13] Eventually, I looked at this. [00:38:15] I go, man, we're just paying these consultants a lot of money. [00:38:18] You know, I said, I could do this. [00:38:21] And so I took a risk and I quit. [00:38:24] And I started my own company and that company was called the Wesley Associates, you know. [00:38:30] And, you know, guess who my first customer was, was AT&T. [00:38:35] And so we came back and my company came back to do the next generation of the network for them and build that out. [00:38:44] And we also did application development, a bunch of things. [00:38:47] And then so I started that company. [00:38:50] And because I took what I learned at AT&T and technology and everything else I learned, it was part of my DNA from being a cop and being in the Justice Department and battling those global cartels and all of that. [00:39:06] And I applied it to work and I was successful, fortunately. [00:39:11] And eventually I had two two offers to buy the company. [00:39:18] And I chose one. [00:39:22] And I decided to choose it. [00:39:24] They said, OK, I'm not sure how much more long longer are these opportunities going to come along. [00:39:32] So I just took took the opportunity and sold the company. [00:39:38] Now, an interesting side note is I also got involved heavily in playing golf. [00:39:44] I really did. [00:39:45] And in fact, that mentor, I told you back back to my cop days, he got me introduced to golf back when I was twenty one, twenty two, whatever it was on the force. [00:39:56] I'd never played golf. [00:39:57] Nobody had played golf back then. [00:39:59] Just he played football and baseball. [00:40:01] And he took a lot of money from me. [00:40:04] Man, he take a lot of money from me. [00:40:06] But when I sold my company, I had time and I really, really wanted to focus on playing golf. [00:40:19] And, you know, I was in Florida and I did that. [00:40:22] And eventually I took some more risk. [00:40:25] I said, you know what? [00:40:26] I'm going to go play the mini tour. [00:40:28] I felt I could do that. [00:40:30] And back then there was not one mini tour like there is today. [00:40:34] There's like four or five different mini tours. [00:40:37] So I took one. [00:40:38] And there is nothing better. [00:40:43] Nothing better to understanding and challenging yourself than playing golf at that level inside the ropes with people and cameras. [00:40:52] You learn a lot about yourself. [00:40:54] You really do. [00:40:55] And you push yourself. [00:40:56] You learn a lot. [00:40:57] And I did. [00:40:59] And I played three tournaments. [00:41:01] I finished twelve third. [00:41:03] I actually won one. [00:41:04] I said, OK, I did this. [00:41:07] There's no, I really didn't have any interest or any desire to go beyond that. [00:41:13] I just did it to see if I could do it, see if I could do something, take some risk, do something different with myself and just to see if I could do it. [00:41:21] And I did. [00:41:23] I did that. [00:41:24] So that's kind of leading up after I did that and sold that company. [00:41:30] I came back to Jersey and and started doing some consulting work for a bar and help them develop their services business and grew that to a five million dollar services business for them. [00:41:43] I was head of mission critical computing, which involved building data centers and networks and all that. [00:41:50] So we did all that. [00:41:52] And because after that, I had a non compete when I when I sold the other company, I couldn't start another business for a while. [00:42:03] So that's why I went back to Jersey and work for a bar because I couldn't start. [00:42:08] And when I saw my again, when I saw my company, I had a two year non compete. [00:42:12] I couldn't start another one in a similar business. [00:42:15] So so that eventually that came up and I did some consulting work. [00:42:21] And then about 2014, I got together with some people from from my past days and intelligence and law enforcement and technology and started discussing that the onslaught of cyber threats and cybersecurity. [00:42:40] And how's it being handled back then in companies and mostly it was in the IT department, right? [00:42:47] It department would be doing cybersecurity. [00:42:51] And my thought was, well, that's OK, but what do they know about connecting the dots? [00:42:58] What do they know about fighting global quartiles? [00:43:01] What do they know about dealing with bad actors like that and having a mindset to be able to do that? [00:43:07] And so I did. And the people I brought on to the company, we all did. [00:43:12] We all had that experience. I had people in my company from Interpol, from military intelligence, [00:43:17] from from immigration and naturalization service, doing forensics investigations, from secret service, doing digital forensics. [00:43:29] So we started the company based on that premise that we wanted to bring that experience in that DNA and apply it to the market to help clients really protect themselves and protect their data and be guardians of their data. [00:43:46] And that's what we did. And that's kind of where we are today with intelligence services group. [00:43:51] We've been going strong. We're in our eighth year of business now. [00:43:54] And that's kind of my journey where I am today. [00:43:59] So much to impact there, Bob. So much to impact there. [00:44:05] And thanks for thanks for giving us a lot to a lot of different directions for us to ask you questions. [00:44:12] I just want to say a few very, very quick things. [00:44:15] Hero comes to mind, 18 years old as an officer. [00:44:19] I've never I don't think I've met you in person. How tall are you, Bob? [00:44:22] And at that age, were you like, were you like six foot, you know, very slender bill? [00:44:28] Well, yeah, back then I was slender bill. [00:44:31] And I went to the state police academy. I got more slender bill. Believe me, they beat it out. [00:44:35] But yeah, you know, there's interesting. I should find it. My sister does this. I don't keep it. [00:44:42] She kept the article, the whole front page, the picture of me when I saved that kid from drowning in uniform. [00:44:48] And I looked back at that. Oh, my God, that was me. Wow. [00:44:53] Yeah, I love to see that. But look, it's it's it's been fascinating hearing your sort of origin story and your journey. [00:45:02] Right. And we still got we still got more. So I'm just going to do a very quick room reset. [00:45:07] If you just joined us, I did see Hussein popping. Thanks for joining us. [00:45:11] If you just joined us, we've been joined this evening by Bob Henderson, who is the founder and CEO of Intelligence Services Group. [00:45:17] I'll say this is probably maybe your third career, Bob, if I want to put it in those terms. [00:45:24] You know, you had a full sort of first part of your life as a as a New Jersey police officer. [00:45:31] Second part of your life sort of I'll say merging security and technology. [00:45:37] And now that they're part of your life sort of running your own business and and servicing customers and big customers that you have, if I'm not mistaken. [00:45:45] So, oh, yeah, they're big clients. Yeah. [00:45:48] Yeah. So so look, I don't want to take up too much time, but if you just joined us, you missed a good sort of 40 minutes of dialogue and backstory. [00:45:59] So, you know, I'm sure you'll get more out of it as we continue to go along and asking questions. [00:46:05] So we'll get through the moderators and then we'll start taking questions from the audience. So, Russell, I'll pass it over to you. [00:46:10] Thanks, Tomas. And Bob, wow, what a rich story career from that. [00:46:16] I remember being on your clubhouse room, one of my best rooms that I've been on and really appreciate being able to do that. [00:46:22] I love your statement that you made, how you treat people matters and you make them feel important. [00:46:29] Can you tell me just one thing, one thing that being a detective, a peace officer helped you to be a better CEO in your company? [00:46:38] Empathy. Without a doubt, empathy and patience. [00:46:43] You have to have empathy when when you're on the street dealing with people because you usually deal with them in their worst ever life situation. [00:46:54] Right. It's still worse. And I would tell you another story of what I had to do that would exemplify that. [00:47:00] I'm just hesitant to do it because it's not a good story. [00:47:04] But it's just where this mother was separated from her husband and he had the children. [00:47:13] And I remember having to go to her and say, your children are coming back. [00:47:18] They're not coming back and being able to do that and understanding the pain she must have been going through. [00:47:28] And how do you do that? How do you you go tell a stranger? [00:47:33] That their children are coming back, you know, and that's just another incident that an event that happened that I took something from and the importance of empathy and how you treat people. [00:47:45] So it's really empathy. [00:47:49] Wow, I can only imagine. I'm glad I can't be in that moment, but I definitely appreciate your insights and what you share there. [00:47:58] Empathy just means so much. So with that, Lisa Beth, I'm going to turn it over to you and start to put you in that position. [00:48:05] I'm going to let you ask your question now. [00:48:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hit me where it where it hurts as a mom with four kids. [00:48:14] Like, I can't imagine what anybody having to tell anybody something that like of that magnitude. [00:48:22] But let's take this to a little bit different direction. [00:48:27] One of the things I always like hearing about is people who have made significant changes in their career direction. [00:48:36] I think that we're going to have a lot of changes in a lifetime and the new generations coming up are going to have even more. [00:48:43] So what are the tips that you would have for people who are considering significant career direction changes? [00:48:53] And are there any resources that you would point to for people who are thinking about making a change? [00:49:00] Yeah, and I relate it to like cybersecurity because I hear so much about it. [00:49:06] I think all of us do on here. We're involved with rooms and events and panels. [00:49:11] It is such a huge topic. Right. [00:49:14] And so I kind of developed over the years three principles I live by. [00:49:21] And so when I tell people that are struggling or really a lot of people and I do mentoring, [00:49:29] they want to get into and I see one of my mentors is here, so I'm glad she can make it. [00:49:34] They want to get into cybersecurity, have no experience or whatever. [00:49:39] And there are three principles that I choose to live by. [00:49:43] And every single day I review these principles and I tell people here are my principles and you should develop in your own. [00:49:52] And the first is have faith. I have a strong foundation in my faith. [00:49:58] Whatever your faith is, have a strong foundation and rely on it and know it's good and practice it and just rely on it. [00:50:07] Have patience. Develop patience. A lot of people, I want this tomorrow. [00:50:13] I want you to develop patience because patience sometimes takes you down a different path. [00:50:20] I think most of the time a better path that you would not have gone down if you were a patient. [00:50:25] And the last thing I talk about is being fearless. Be fearless on whatever your journey is, whatever you want it to be, whatever your pursuit is. [00:50:37] Just be fearless in that mission or that goal where you want to go. [00:50:43] I think a lot of people have fear. They're scared of the unknown or they're scared of, you know, I had that term imposter syndrome, which I think is nonsense. [00:50:52] But they hit back and they have fear. And I got I tell people, be fearless. [00:50:57] Now, fearless doesn't mean there's no fear. It just means that you act in spite of the fear and you keep pushing through it. [00:51:04] So be fearless in whatever it is your pursuit is. And don't stop and don't ever, ever let anyone get in your way of pursuing that goal. [00:51:14] So figure out what your principles are and live those principles. [00:51:22] I hope that those are absolutely fabulous. [00:51:26] And I think that would help anybody in any pursuit that they decide to undertake. [00:51:31] So thank you for that. I'm going to pass it over to Katie. [00:51:35] Yeah, thank you. Yeah. You know, my question that I was marinating on is piggybacking a little bit on what you're doing. [00:51:43] I'm not Lisa Beth just said, although I have to say one thing just to lighten the mood for one second. [00:51:49] I think another one of the best quotes ever. I write down a lot of the quotes that just are kind of like, oh, that was an epic quote. [00:51:55] When you said you were first in the industry and you thought that a modem was another was the street name for a methamphetamine. [00:52:02] That might go down as one of my top ten of all. [00:52:06] I had no idea what a modem was. I love it. [00:52:11] I mean, I've never heard a modem, you know, something, huh? What what could that possibly be? [00:52:15] Clearly, you know, your background influenced your your thought there. [00:52:19] So I thought I'd lighten the mood there for a second. [00:52:21] But yeah, you know, and what Lisa Beth mentioned, you know, just I was thinking as you talked through all of your different experiences and the DNA of who you are, how you've applied that to your business, that you, you know, you took a risk at that one point to be a consultant that you. [00:52:37] I love what you said, too, about learning a lot about yourself between your between the ropes, you know, and it has to have TV cameras and people watching you golf. [00:52:45] You've got into a little bit. You said a little. It was faith. [00:52:48] You got a little bit of the background of why you are so fearless. [00:52:51] What would you say to somebody, though, who still is standing there on the precipice of something great and is still sitting there in their fear to be able to get through that fear and take the risk to do the thing that they need to do next? [00:53:06] The first thing I want to ask him is what the what is the worst that could happen if you took that leap? [00:53:13] Now, for me, it was easy because what I used to do, I know at any day I could die. [00:53:21] Right. So to me, it was easy. Well, I'm not going to die. So I don't care. [00:53:26] I've already been there, done that, faced that doesn't bother me. [00:53:29] I'm not going to die if I if I take this risk. [00:53:32] So a little different. I wasn't worried about that. [00:53:36] And that's why I ask people is what are you afraid of? [00:53:39] What's the worst that can happen if you did this? [00:53:42] And that's where you got to think about that. [00:53:44] What's the worst that can happen? [00:53:46] What's the worst that can happen if you did it? [00:53:48] And most of the time, their worst is really is not the worst. [00:53:53] It's just there. [00:53:55] There is no worse. [00:53:57] And if you start being able to open a mind up to that is first to find what is the worst thing for you and then give them other alternatives that could be worse. [00:54:09] And then they can start seeing it. [00:54:11] Well, maybe what I was thinking isn't that bad at all. [00:54:14] I go, no, it isn't because this is this could happen or this could happen, which is a lot worse than what you're thinking. [00:54:22] So that's how I would approach it is what's the worst that can happen. [00:54:26] And you start giving them alternatives where they can compare and contrast their their fear to other fears. [00:54:37] And then they might come to realization that, you know, it really isn't that fearful. [00:54:43] No, it's not. [00:54:46] Yeah, I appreciate that. [00:54:47] I love that. [00:54:48] Yeah, that whole idea of what would you do if you weren't afraid. [00:54:52] And I think your experience to just your split decision to jump into the lock to save the child. [00:54:59] And you have those life and death scenarios. [00:55:02] But I think for all of us, yeah, that's so encouraging to hear your story and see how, you know, those principles, you're using those to mentor the next generation of our cybersecurity community. [00:55:14] And so we're and we're trying to write in this room and really appreciate it. [00:55:17] So with that, I'll turn it over to Anil to ask the next question. [00:55:21] Thank you again, Bob. [00:55:22] Thank you. [00:55:23] Thanks, Katie. [00:55:24] Bob, one of the things you touched upon a keyword in a couple of different pivots in your life, actually having lived a couple of different lives is a mindset. [00:55:36] And I have the luxury to work with law enforcement. [00:55:40] And one of the things I came across with those veterans I worked with is they developed that street savvy, that street smarts. [00:55:47] How was that translated into the roles that you've had later on in your career? [00:55:52] Those street smarts is relative to understanding the human behavior. [00:55:59] That's really what street smarts means, right? [00:56:01] How are humans going to react in a certain situation? [00:56:05] How should you react in a certain situation to get the outcome you need or you should be getting? [00:56:11] Right. So street smarts. [00:56:13] Yeah. [00:56:14] Trust me, we develop it. [00:56:15] I develop it. [00:56:16] And it's the understanding of the human behavior. [00:56:21] What you can expect when you interact with somebody, how are they going to behave? [00:56:25] How are they going to respond? [00:56:27] So you can translate that very easily. [00:56:30] And I did in the business where if we're working with a client and we don't have customers, we have clients. [00:56:38] How are they going to respond if all of a sudden, you know, it's going to be a very substantial investment for them to do this? [00:56:47] Well, I know how they're going to respond. [00:56:51] So that street smarts is around understanding human behavior and how the people are going to react in certain situations. [00:56:59] And that's really what street smarts is. [00:57:01] And that's really relevant in business, extremely relevant. [00:57:06] Whether you're whether you're in cybersecurity or you're in the legal field in terms of negotiating, you're in the finance field. [00:57:15] It's all relevant because you're dealing with humans no matter where you go and understanding how they're going to behave, how they're going to respond to certain situations is extremely important because you know what to expect. [00:57:29] And then you can respond to it accordingly that will hopefully get to where you want to go. [00:57:35] So that's my take on that. [00:57:37] It's yeah. [00:57:38] Street smarts are extremely important and you don't have to be in law enforcement or whatever to have developed street smarts. [00:57:45] You don't. [00:57:46] You have to just understand your environment, what's around you and how things operate and how people behave. [00:57:52] That's my answer. [00:57:55] I hope that answer for you. [00:57:57] No, that's great. [00:57:58] We appreciate that, Bob. [00:57:59] I mean, like you said, I think that's that developing that dynamic engaging with humans at all levels you develop over time, but it's an invaluable asset to have. [00:58:09] Appreciate that. [00:58:10] Onto you, Hussein. [00:58:11] Good evening, Bob. [00:58:13] I heard you were a state trooper in New Jersey. [00:58:17] That's not a state state. [00:58:19] I was a local cop and then I went to the state police academy. [00:58:22] Oh, got it. [00:58:23] Yeah. [00:58:24] I was going to say you never pulled me over. [00:58:25] So maybe I was like. [00:58:26] So a question, you know, police officer or law enforcement have a very unique way of interrogating people and the approach with a very different. [00:58:39] You know, angle. [00:58:41] So did you take or transcend some of those skills into the cyber investigations as well? [00:58:47] Yeah. [00:58:48] And if you did, can you draw some parallels there for us? [00:58:51] Yeah, especially when it comes to let's talk about insider threats. [00:58:55] Right. [00:58:56] I don't want to give an example of a company we had to go into, but a couple of them. [00:59:06] But it's really relevant when you're dealing with, say, insider threats to organizations and being able to understand how that particular individual individuals think about what they're doing. [00:59:19] Because if you really think of anybody in their right mind, I shouldn't say right mind, but anyone what I think common sense. [00:59:26] Why would you as an insider with today's technology and forensics capability try to do something nefarious inside your own company? [00:59:34] Did you really think you're not going to get caught seriously? [00:59:39] So it definitely applies a lot in those cases where we call them and we uncover insider threats. [00:59:46] And so we apply that to how we how we uncover that and how we find out what they're doing. [00:59:53] And again, connecting the dots and understanding how they think about it, knowing that they're in a unique position within the company and knowing you would think that they have some awareness that. [01:00:08] What they're doing is extremely risky and they may get caught so they're going to do things differently than a normal individual who doesn't have those risks outside the organization. [01:00:22] They're going to do things differently in terms of their path they're taken to do their activities. [01:00:29] So you have to be able to understand that and you have to be able to understand how they think, what motivates them and be able to connect the dots because those dots you connect with insider threats are going to be totally different than outsider threats. [01:00:44] So I hope that answers your question. [01:00:48] It does. [01:00:49] It does. [01:00:50] Yeah. [01:00:51] The intention, motivation and the benefit of the different for external versus internal. [01:00:58] Man, good parallel there. [01:00:59] Over to you, Mr. Maldonado. [01:01:01] Thank you, Hussain. [01:01:02] Thanks, Madhuri. [01:01:03] Great questions. [01:01:04] Look, it is 8.55 p.m. Eastern time, so why don't, if there are any individuals in the room that do have a question for Bob, feel free to raise your hand, and we will bring you up on stage. [01:01:18] There we go. [01:01:23] Hey, Ken. [01:01:24] I see Ken first. [01:01:25] Hey, Ken. [01:01:26] Go over to you, my friend. [01:01:27] Awesome. [01:01:28] Thank you. [01:01:29] Hey, Bob. [01:01:30] Thanks for sharing. [01:01:31] Love hearing about the back story and I'm honored to know you. [01:01:36] I think one of the things I would say to describe you is you've got a very good BS meter. [01:01:45] And my question for you tonight is in the cybersecurity world, when you look at considering what cybersecurity companies today believe, what is something that most cybersecurity companies believe that you would call BS on? [01:02:02] Yeah, I have a thought about it's not just companies. [01:02:05] It's actually the way I look at it. [01:02:07] It's the security industry as a whole. [01:02:09] And the way I'll answer that, and Ken, good to see you again, thank you, is we as a business entity or as a business sector have created so much complexity in the cybersecurity business. [01:02:25] It is so complex, right? [01:02:28] And people struggle with that complexity. [01:02:30] And that complexity creates mystery, right? [01:02:34] Because nobody has or knows everything about technology, whether it's specific software or product or they just don't know. [01:02:46] So there's when you top off complexity, it creates mystery. [01:02:51] And I think what these vendors do, they know that they know there's mystery. [01:02:56] And it's a favorite saying I heard once before where there's mystery, there's margin. [01:03:01] And so that in itself should tell you the answer, right? [01:03:06] Didn't create a lot of margin by creating mystery and keeping things complex. [01:03:11] Because if nobody understands it, they know they may need it. [01:03:15] They know they got got to have it. [01:03:18] But they're not sure why. [01:03:20] There's a lot of mystery there. [01:03:21] Well, that creates a lot of margin for companies. [01:03:23] So that's kind of my take on it. [01:03:31] I hope that's the answer. [01:03:33] Yeah, it was great. [01:03:34] Thank you. [01:03:35] Thanks, Karen. [01:03:40] Oh, I wasn't sorry, Tomas. [01:03:43] I didn't mean to step in. [01:03:44] I wasn't sure if you were indisposed. [01:03:46] I was just going to go to Ryan next, if that's okay. [01:03:48] I was indisposed. [01:03:50] Go ahead. [01:03:51] Over to you, Ryan. [01:03:54] Thanks, Katie. [01:03:56] Thanks, Tomas. [01:03:57] Can you guys hear me okay? [01:03:59] No, we cannot. [01:04:00] Just, okay. [01:04:02] Well, Bob, first of all, I don't think I've ever heard you talk so much. [01:04:06] So I definitely have to say that it's a nice surprise from the rooms I know we have been in together. [01:04:13] I definitely learned more than, not that I expected, but just definitely more than I definitely had a clue about. [01:04:20] But that said, you definitely mentioned this, like you have a theme about you're happy that you learned things as a cop that you brought over, you know, into, you know, your separate careers. [01:04:31] I think we've said there was at least three of those. [01:04:34] But I guess I'm more curious, kind of toting also off Katie and her modem comment or reference to you is, you know, did you ever have a moment in at least one of these careers where you really were like, oh my goodness, I don't know what that is. [01:04:49] And it might not have been as easy as figuring out what a modem was. [01:04:54] And, you know, obviously using all these on the fly skills and street smarts, you know, how did you go about, I guess, if it was more of a challenge coming over that? [01:05:04] You know, did you ever feel like you were you were over or like in the water, like I'm a cop? [01:05:11] What am I doing thinking I can do cyber? [01:05:13] I mean, I know you said that you didn't believe in imposter syndrome, but I guess, did you ever have that? [01:05:17] Like, oh, my gosh, why did I do this moment? [01:05:19] I asked your question. [01:05:22] I had those moments, starting today sometimes. [01:05:26] But it's the moment of not that why did I do it, but geez, you know, you know, I am in in over my head, whatever. [01:05:37] But I didn't allow that to dictate what I was going to do or stop me. [01:05:44] Or I said, OK, I'm in this. [01:05:47] I realize it. [01:05:48] What do I have to do to get beyond this? [01:05:51] Because that's just you had to. [01:05:53] So I figured out ways to get beyond it, to deal with that. [01:05:57] And it's nothing more complicated than that. [01:05:59] Yes, I did. [01:06:00] And I still do today sometimes. [01:06:04] When I get involved in like right right now, we're involved with a substantial, substantial opportunity with a lot of money involved with clients. [01:06:13] And it's a it's a it's a big, big thing for a partner and for them and and us. [01:06:21] And, you know, I said, OK. [01:06:24] It's huge. [01:06:26] It's exciting. [01:06:27] I don't know everything about it yet, but I'm going to find out. [01:06:32] I'm not going to. [01:06:33] I'm certainly not going to let it stop me. [01:06:35] Yes, I always had those moments, especially when I went from being a cop and 18th. [01:06:40] Oh, my God. [01:06:41] That was the worst. [01:06:42] Because it was such a different culture. [01:06:47] For me to adapt to it was so different. [01:06:51] And how give you an example, you know, back then 18th, you had these meetings there. [01:06:57] They were, oh, God, these meetings would go on for hours to decide what should have taken five minutes. [01:07:04] Right. [01:07:05] And it would drive me nuts. [01:07:08] And eventually I just the way I handled it before the meeting, I went down and made sure all the chairs were removed out of the conference room. [01:07:17] So when people showed up, you'd be surprised how quickly they became to to a conclusion, made a decision with no chairs in the room. [01:07:27] That is hilarious. [01:07:29] Yeah, I definitely did that because I didn't understand it where I came from. [01:07:34] We had to make split second decisions. [01:07:36] OK, I realize you can't you don't have to make split second decisions in business. [01:07:41] It's not the same. [01:07:42] I get all that. [01:07:43] But go on for hours, which should have taken maybe 20 minutes. [01:07:46] It was like, wow. [01:07:47] But I solved that real quick. [01:07:49] I think that's going to go in my like book of maybe uncanny motivators for if we ever, you know, we're not in maybe a virtual hybrid is depending on the meeting agenda is to take out all the chairs or or find standing room. [01:08:07] Thanks, Bob. [01:08:08] That was really insightful. [01:08:10] I think more so that just as a reminder, right, as most I think most people always run to the fallacy that CEOs and CESAs, oh, they have it all figured out. [01:08:19] They don't really break a sweat. [01:08:20] And I think it's just nice to be reminded that, you know, everyone is has those moments that we can learn from and have empathy for. [01:08:29] Thanks. [01:08:30] And as always, you probably know I have like at least three more questions, but I see Bria and Jennifer. [01:08:34] So I'll just, you know, wait until if I have another opportunity. [01:08:38] Thanks. [01:08:39] I appreciate it. [01:08:40] But real quick in response to you. [01:08:42] Oh, you never heard me talk so much when I go in his rooms. [01:08:45] You know, I don't because I want to learn. [01:08:48] And the best way for me to learn is to listen. [01:08:50] I just listen a lot. [01:08:52] So that's kind of why I don't talk very much. [01:08:54] I literally can tell you the last time I heard you speak and exactly what you said. [01:08:58] And it was very brief. [01:08:59] So I appreciate you wanting to learn. [01:09:03] But obviously I would, I would personally just recommend a little bit more balance as obviously there's much to learn from you as well. [01:09:09] So thank you always. [01:09:11] Thank you. [01:09:12] Thanks, Ryan. [01:09:14] Thanks for asking your question. [01:09:16] And I just learned I should probably take a seat out of my car. [01:09:20] Nobody will ask me for a ride ever. [01:09:22] Bria, over to you. [01:09:24] That's pretty good. [01:09:25] Oh, no. [01:09:26] So thank you, Tomas. [01:09:28] I just wanted to come on here. [01:09:30] Bob is actually my mentor, and I just wanted to give him his flowers. [01:09:34] Bob talks a lot. [01:09:35] He's actually been very supportive with me being a new cyber professional. [01:09:41] I've done some very courageous things as far as, you know, taking a leap of faith, which is something Bob talks about. [01:09:48] He's been supportive. [01:09:49] Any decision that I've made and Bob is very much so axon, you know, action. [01:09:55] If I need something, he'll, you know, provide the resources, whatever it is, it's done in a day. [01:10:01] So thank you, Bob, just for, you know, everything. [01:10:03] And I'm glad you finally are celebrating yourself in a way. [01:10:07] Thank you so much just for everything. [01:10:10] Well, well, Bria, I appreciate that. [01:10:13] It means a lot. [01:10:14] And I want to thank you because, you know, you're not the only one learning. [01:10:18] I've learned as well when I do mentoring. [01:10:20] Right. [01:10:21] And so I've learned a lot. [01:10:22] And it's been fantastic to watch you on the journey. [01:10:25] Absolutely. [01:10:26] So I really appreciate those feedback. [01:10:28] Thank you so much. [01:10:29] No, thank you, Bob, so much. [01:10:31] Thanks, Bria. [01:10:33] Thanks for jumping up on stage and giving Bob his flowers because it's very well deserved. [01:10:39] I mean, he's had a very historic career and he's still going, which is awesome. [01:10:44] Something that we should all sort of strive for. [01:10:46] And he says something that resonates with me and I'm sure resonates with others, which is, look, you have to continue to learning, continue to listen. [01:10:54] Don't talk so much. [01:10:55] Listen and learn and give back, which is, I think, very, very good sort of point. [01:11:01] So awesome. [01:11:02] Thanks, Bria. [01:11:03] Thanks for coming up on stage. [01:11:05] Of course. [01:11:06] Thank you. [01:11:07] You're welcome. [01:11:08] Jennifer, over to you. [01:11:10] Thank you, Tomas. [01:11:11] Hey, Bob. [01:11:12] I'm just going to echo the earlier comments. [01:11:14] We're in a lot of rooms together. [01:11:15] And now that I know your backstory, I'm not going to let you sit in the audience so much. [01:11:18] This is awesome. [01:11:20] Awesome. [01:11:21] And quick seat story. [01:11:22] Ryan, I would take that theory and not just use it on seats to see it coming at problems from a different direction. [01:11:27] But this is in high school. [01:11:28] My brother had a motorcycle and in one day it had two seats and the next day it had one seat. [01:11:33] And I'm like, you're supposed to take me riding. [01:11:35] He's like, it's only got one seat. [01:11:36] I'm like, why would you buy a motorcycle with one seat? [01:11:39] Anyways, I didn't know you could cover them up. [01:11:41] But, so that's my seat story. [01:11:43] But back to you, Bob. [01:11:44] Yeah. [01:11:45] The, your, your approach and your skill sets that you bring along. [01:11:50] So the, this connecting the dots. [01:11:52] So like in my world, we call that like the synergies across things, as well as the, you know, empathy that would work, you know, that works in both crime and telling people things, but also in sales or anything, in any business decision. [01:12:05] And along with the multidiscipline, like your background from law enforcement decisions need to be made. [01:12:10] Um, kind of the bigger picture. [01:12:13] Do you, when you're bringing all that to your teams or the people you're working with, are you, do you find it challenging to bring them along? [01:12:21] Like to, to have them see this, like, you know, like when you're explaining things, do you find it, how do you bring your team along like that? [01:12:29] Cause that's a lot of thinking that you're bringing. [01:12:30] Yeah. [01:12:31] Yeah. [01:12:32] Well, fortunately, most of my team members in my company, they share a similar background. [01:12:37] Most of it in the intelligence, law enforcement field, like I said, they come from secret servers, Interpol military. [01:12:44] So they share a lot of that already. [01:12:46] Right. [01:12:47] Uh, which, which certainly helps, but in order to transition them into business, it's a different way of thinking. [01:12:57] You have to rely on what you've learned, uh, what you used to do and how to apply that. [01:13:03] And one of the things I talk about, especially cause you know, we deal with clients every day is, and they're dealing with clients every day. [01:13:11] And, and Russell's heard me say this before. [01:13:14] It's so important that when you talk to clients and want to know about them, you become a scholar of their business, right? [01:13:23] If you're going to help them, if we're going to help them and help protect them, provide them a technology set. [01:13:30] It is so imperative that you become a scholar of that business for them. [01:13:34] And, you know, I even share that when I'm doing mentoring with other people, they talk about how do, how do I, once I'm in a company and want to grow and do different things. [01:13:47] Well, you have to become a scholar of the business. [01:13:51] That's what CISOs are doing. [01:13:53] They may, they may think it's called something else, but CISOs have morphed and evolved into becoming scholars of the business. [01:14:00] And so as an individual, as us, as a service provider and a contractor, we have to do the same thing. [01:14:08] So take what you've learned, apply those to clients in a way that's going to make them successful. [01:14:15] But you have to remember to, to understand them, understand their business. [01:14:20] And I use that term, become a scholar of the business for a reason. [01:14:23] And that's how I kind of approach it and the benefits of that, how that's going to benefit us and them and the client. [01:14:31] Yeah, I think you bring a lot, a lot more like when you're teaching them, like just your, your, the way you think is exceptional. [01:14:39] It's, it's very evolved. [01:14:42] That's how I would like to say it is understanding that to people going to want to sell them a solution versus understanding the business and why they're there. [01:14:47] But I'm really enjoying the conversation, Bob. [01:14:50] Thanks a lot. [01:14:51] Thank you. [01:14:53] Thanks, Jennifer. [01:14:54] Thanks for asking your question. [01:14:56] Samantha, over to you. [01:14:59] Hi Thomas. [01:15:00] Hi Bob. [01:15:01] I think this is the first time I ever heard you speak, which is amazing. [01:15:05] I was kind of thinking you're a silent cybersecurity professional, which is quite different for me working in like, you know, audit. [01:15:12] I am, it's been very, very insightful listening to your career path, how you started, you know, in the, at least four years. [01:15:20] And how you got into audit. [01:15:21] And I think that one of the things that probably I kind of like contemplate and struggle as I'm in my career. [01:15:30] I'm 10 years into my career as a CPA. [01:15:33] CPA, as they say in America, an audit professional accountant, as I say in the UK. [01:15:40] Is that transition as in like, you know, using your skills that you've learned in your previous career going into your next career and knowing how and who to tap into in order to transition. [01:15:53] So, I just wanted to ask for you in terms of like you have your own company. [01:16:00] How do you assess people and consider whether they are appropriate in terms of people who are able to transition into a cybersecurity sort of profession? [01:16:12] Yeah, that's a good question because there's a lot of that discussion going on today in the cybersecurity market. [01:16:21] And the way I view it is everyone, no matter what you do or what your background is, you have specific skills that are needed and important in the cybersecurity space. [01:16:36] And, you know, I don't like the term soft skills because I think that implies something not, you know, kind of squishy, not very important. [01:16:43] I call those things human skills. [01:16:46] You have to have human skills to be able to relate to people. [01:16:50] And usually if you sat down and you did introspect, especially a CPA, right, what you're doing and understanding the financing and understanding the businesses that you're creating, whether it's a finance plan or going through the books, you have a specific skill that it's around detail, right? [01:17:11] Well, that's applicable in cybersecurity, whether it's governance, whether it's threat hunting, it applies. [01:17:18] And I think people get so hung up. [01:17:21] Well, I'm not I don't have any skills in cybersecurity. [01:17:25] And then the first I tell them, look at yourself first before you try to figure out what you want to do. [01:17:34] Look at what you bring to the table, what you can apply in terms of what you learn to cybersecurity, and you'll find something because there is something there. [01:17:46] So that's the first thing I would do is understanding what your skills are and then understanding where within cybersecurity, those skills are relevant and can be applied. [01:18:01] And I'll give you an example. [01:18:04] And we don't have salespeople, believe it or not. [01:18:06] We don't have salespeople. [01:18:07] I won't get into why, but we don't have salespeople. [01:18:10] But in the previous experience, this company would hire. [01:18:16] And they were selling technology and services and they hired bartenders to be salespeople. [01:18:25] And I remember some people scratching their head and I go, it's brilliant. [01:18:29] Bartenders usually are the best at relating to people. [01:18:34] They are the best at listening to people and hearing their stories and make them feel good. [01:18:39] So for them to come into sales is a great skill set to have. [01:18:44] So it matters. [01:18:47] There is something for you and you just have to figure out how to apply what you know and what you're good at in the cybersecurity. [01:18:57] And there's something, there is always something that you can do. [01:19:01] Does that answer your question? [01:19:03] Yeah, it does. [01:19:04] Thank you. [01:19:05] I thought auditors were loved more than bartenders, but that's obviously not the case. [01:19:11] Yeah, no, thank you very much. [01:19:13] I think that adds on, you know, I've known Katie, I've known Jennifer and Tom Ryan, who's in the bottom for like a year now. [01:19:20] But I think one of the things is like, you know, it's one of those confidence things because you never, okay, let me not use an absolute. [01:19:27] It's very rare to see such job openings or postings or situations where you don't need to know about networking. [01:19:34] You don't need to know about coding. [01:19:35] And I think it's just like being aware how important it is that your network is your net worth and knowing who to reach out to to get those opportunities if you don't have that technical IT background. [01:19:46] So, yeah, that's very helpful. [01:19:47] Thank you. [01:19:48] Thank you. [01:19:49] Appreciate the question. [01:19:51] And bartenders do have intoxicating personalities. [01:19:54] That's pretty good. [01:19:58] I had to get it in there. [01:20:00] I had to get it in there. [01:20:01] You know, I had to get that joke in there. [01:20:03] Octavia is not here to enjoy that one. [01:20:05] But, you know, you all know I had to get one in for the evening. [01:20:08] Great. [01:20:09] Look, it's been awesome so far. [01:20:13] If there's anybody else that has a question for Bob, please feel free to raise your hand and we'll bring you up on stage. [01:20:17] I know Ryan said she had. [01:20:18] I know Ryan. [01:20:19] I know she said she had three questions. [01:20:22] She did one. [01:20:23] So go ahead, Ryan. [01:20:24] It's hard, but you know, I feel like, Bob, you went over it so quickly. [01:20:31] And actually before I say that, I was going to say, if there's two things I've learned tonight, it's that at Thanksgiving, I'm removing the chairs. [01:20:37] And I love the idea of hiring bartenders. [01:20:40] So any other like Bob isms that you have, because I truly can say those are original and I've never heard those before. [01:20:47] Please, please just add any of those. [01:20:50] Well, I'll give you a real quick one that we first started. [01:20:54] Tomas says, well, you're not your manure. [01:20:56] Maybe we'll talk a little bit about being an entrepreneur, which I can talk about. [01:21:00] But, you know, especially in this business, we talk about if you want to be a company and provide services or products, you've got to create value, create value. [01:21:09] We all have heard that term, right? [01:21:11] Well, that's only part of the equation. [01:21:13] And I think most entrepreneurs forget the other side of that equation. [01:21:17] And the other side is you've got to capture the value. [01:21:20] So I want you to think about that for a minute. [01:21:24] It's not just about creating value, but you've got to be able to capture that value. [01:21:28] And capture that value of what you bring to that client. [01:21:32] And get that from them. [01:21:37] Get that from that client. [01:21:39] Capture that value for them. [01:21:40] So that's just something to think about if you're going to be an entrepreneur. [01:21:43] It's not simply create value. [01:21:45] It's beyond that. [01:21:46] I will say I love that in a sense. [01:21:49] I say that often more so to transitioning vets because I think they're so focused on the mission. [01:21:57] And as they get out, I think it's so important to capture the results and the value in their resume so people can really understand how well they did their skills. [01:22:06] But that is a very different conversation. [01:22:10] But that is very helpful. [01:22:11] And I appreciate that. [01:22:13] My question was that I was starting to say that I think you went over so quickly. [01:22:17] Is it about your mentor? [01:22:19] I apologize. [01:22:20] I don't know if you did say the name and I missed it. [01:22:22] You did mention you met him, I believe, when you were a cop and he is a board member today. [01:22:27] And I would just love to know. [01:22:29] I'm not even sure what my question is. [01:22:31] It's somewhere around, you know, how did you know, did you see him and you were like, hey, yeah, that's going to be my mentor. [01:22:38] Like, was that the word you even had at the time or was that something a relationship just naturally came? [01:22:43] And then and really what I want to get to is, you know, it sounds like it's been a minute since you were a cop. [01:22:48] So, you know, what were maybe the ways that your conversation and your mentor relationship obviously changed as you your career changed, his career changed? [01:22:58] And, you know, were there ever any challenges and, you know, did you ever be like, oh, we lost touch and then you came back? [01:23:03] Like, I guess that just seems like such an amazing space that that really, I think, goes to some of the heart of why we're here is understanding, like, those mentoring relationships and and how they can really be. [01:23:14] And it sounds like you have a great legacy one. [01:23:16] Yeah. Yeah. [01:23:17] Well, growing up, he was a store walk in the community. [01:23:21] He was he was a police officer. [01:23:23] And so eventually so we knew of him and we know I knew who he was. [01:23:28] So when I eventually got on at 18 years old, he was there and he was like the senior officer. [01:23:33] He eventually became chief of police and retired. [01:23:36] But he that's how I knew him. [01:23:40] I knew of him. [01:23:41] And then once I got on and he kind of took every every new individual under his wing and he made sure that they understood the those really those two principles. [01:23:53] You have to play by the rules. [01:23:55] There's no shortcuts here. [01:23:57] You've got to play by the rules. [01:23:59] And and it's how you treat people. [01:24:02] You know, and he he just took it upon himself. [01:24:05] So maybe back then I didn't view him as a mentor. [01:24:09] Now I do going back and I see what he did for me in terms of instilling those values and those thoughts into my mindset, why it was so important and it proved to be important. [01:24:22] I gave you some examples of where it worked and why it was important. [01:24:28] One of those probably saved my life. [01:24:30] So he wasn't really a mentor, but he was he was the senior officer and it was he just took all the recruits under his wing and made sure they understood. [01:24:41] And, you know, it just. [01:24:44] Again, if you saw a class in leadership in the dictionary, his picture would be next to it. [01:24:50] Awesome. [01:24:51] That sounds sounds very special. [01:24:56] Sounds amazing. [01:24:57] I'll sort of had someone pretty sure from, you know, from your probably before you ever knew what you wanted to do in your life to really get to know him. [01:25:07] Thank you. [01:25:08] I didn't like you took a lot of money from me when he started teaching me golf. [01:25:13] But of course that changed over the years. [01:25:16] I got more than my share about. [01:25:18] But probably you want me to teach you some cyber. [01:25:21] I can use some money. [01:25:22] No, I'm just playing. [01:25:23] Or. [01:25:24] I'm sure I'm sure you'll be teaching me a lot of things, but because I've already learned a lot today. [01:25:34] I'm sure there's more for me to learn. [01:25:36] Dee, thanks for thanks for joining us this evening. [01:25:39] Dee is here. [01:25:40] Go ahead, Dee. [01:25:42] Thank you so much for having me. [01:25:44] I love what I heard so far. [01:25:46] And Bob, going back to the fearlessness, I would love your thoughts on how someone should approach a new way of doing something in business where there is resistance. [01:26:00] So I'm a pioneer in interviewing the way that I approach it. [01:26:05] And, you know, HR professionals are not really on board. [01:26:11] And so what I would love to know is how do you approach that when there is resistance from the actual people who've been doing it so long that they don't have a new perspective? [01:26:27] Thank you. [01:26:28] That's a great question because that's exactly what I ran into when I went to AT&T. [01:26:35] I thought their mindset, they came from a regulated industry. [01:26:40] Now they were in a competitive industry, totally different mindset. [01:26:43] So I ran into that. [01:26:45] Fortunately, I had a senior VP that understood times have changed. [01:26:53] And AT&T had changed with the times and approached things differently. [01:27:00] He supported my efforts and my approach. [01:27:02] But what I would tell you is first try to, again, this is around empathy and understanding humans is understand their goals. [01:27:15] Understand what they think their mission is and try to put yourself in their shoes and relate to what they're facing. [01:27:24] Because for them, they probably have a lot of fear, right? [01:27:29] Because it's unknown to them. [01:27:31] These changes, they don't know how it's going to impact them. [01:27:34] So they're fearful of it. [01:27:35] So I would start with having conversations with them to try to find out. [01:27:41] And it's not that they don't want to do it, I suspect. [01:27:45] I suspect they're fearful of it because they don't know. [01:27:48] So if you start having those conversations and start explaining to them what the benefit is, not only to say the company, but how it's going to benefit them. [01:28:02] I think you're able to change the conversation because you can remember they're fearful just like you are. [01:28:08] They're fearful too. [01:28:09] And so that's how I would approach it and see if that works. [01:28:14] Have those conversations. [01:28:16] Find out what's driving their fear of change. [01:28:19] Are they fear because they may be out of a job? [01:28:23] Maybe. [01:28:24] Is it fear because it's something new? [01:28:26] They can't they feel they can't learn or don't want to learn. [01:28:30] But until you have those conversations, ask those questions, you're just not going to know. [01:28:35] Wow. [01:28:36] Thank you. [01:28:37] Hope that helped. [01:28:39] It did. [01:28:41] Thanks, D.D. [01:28:42] Thanks for joining us this evening. [01:28:44] And thanks for asking your question. [01:28:46] Ryan, you've got a question number three. [01:28:49] Okay. [01:28:50] Okay. [01:28:51] I'm going to go ahead and get to the question. [01:28:52] I'm going to go ahead and get to the question. [01:28:53] I don't know. [01:28:54] I feel like these have been so good. [01:28:55] I don't want to strike out here. [01:28:56] I know. [01:28:57] No, this has been I'll be honest. [01:28:58] I actually kind of assume that come. [01:28:59] I felt like I was a little bit late to come into the whole clubhouse thing, but I guess I kind of I made this bad guess that just like Tomas and Katie and everyone else that you had already went. [01:29:14] I think I would just want to know, I guess, what what maybe has changed, especially now that you know, you are a CEO in your company. [01:29:27] Did you ever have any of these moments where you were like, wow, you know, I had thought that maybe this would be so much different and you got onto that role, especially maybe around the responsibility piece. [01:29:40] I know you did mention empathy, especially as a CEO, but was there anything that you came that really kind of you didn't expect when you became that? [01:29:48] And I feel like I tend to ask this question, right? [01:29:50] It's like, you know, at what point did you know you wanted to be maybe a CEO? [01:29:54] You know, and how long did it take you to get there? [01:29:57] I mean, I'm kind of making a guess that you are not a cop like I'm going to be a CEO one day. [01:30:01] Right. [01:30:02] So maybe maybe somewhere between that you can tell me when you decided you want to be a CEO and maybe what your biggest surprise was. [01:30:08] Yeah, I decided that when I left AT&T, when I was at AT&T and I said we were hiring consultants like crazy to help us with this North American project to put in data centers and networks. [01:30:24] And, you know, we didn't have enough people. [01:30:26] And I started seeing that, man, they're charging for this. [01:30:29] They're way overcharging for this in terms of what they're delivering. [01:30:33] And so it was then that I said, you know what, I could do this. [01:30:38] So I started that company. [01:30:40] I was CEO of that company and built it. [01:30:42] So I didn't really put too much thought into whether I'm CEO or whatever. [01:30:49] I didn't even think about that. [01:30:50] What I thought about was being able to do something better for people, for a client. [01:30:57] There's had to be a better way because I thought AT&T back then was getting ripped off from some of these consults. [01:31:03] It was amazing to me. [01:31:04] And I said, no, this can't be. [01:31:06] So I even today that CEO title, I don't put much thought into that or whatever. [01:31:14] It's just I happen to start the company and I'm the CEO, but I really don't put too much thought into that. [01:31:20] But it really started back when I left AT&T. [01:31:24] I have to say, as someone who's been a customer of AT&T, I find it funny that you're saying AT&T was getting ripped off when I feel that they have ripped me off once or twice in a wise way. [01:31:34] But that is the conversation. [01:31:35] You've got to remember, this is how many years ago that was. [01:31:38] I'm talking about, you know, early 80s or whatever. [01:31:41] So totally. [01:31:42] And I'm talking about the internal people. [01:31:45] I'm teasing. [01:31:46] I agree. [01:31:47] I just thought that was a funny sound bite, so to speak. [01:31:51] I was like, huh, that's not exactly what I would think about it. [01:31:54] But as someone who has worked with them in my consulting profession, I do agree. [01:31:58] It's very, very different than, you know, going around the corner to the AT&T shop and either talk about Wi-Fi or phones. [01:32:04] That's really awesome for what that is worth, though, that, you know, you just saw a problem and you solved it. [01:32:10] And, you know, it sounds like you are not like, I want to be CEO. [01:32:13] I just want to I just want to solve this problem. [01:32:15] And this is the best way. [01:32:17] I think that's really awesome. [01:32:18] And I really appreciate all the insights and I don't know, Bob isms or what we're calling these. [01:32:23] But these are these are going to take up space in my brain for a while, especially the no chairs. [01:32:30] And I can't tell you how much I love that. So thank you. [01:32:34] That was very original. [01:32:36] Thanks, Ryan. [01:32:37] Thank you for asking and contributing to the conversation. [01:32:41] I'd argue that Bob, Bob and even other great leaders like Bob are have always been CEOs in their own right throughout every aspect of their career. [01:32:51] And you can see it, Bob, maybe you don't. I don't know if you think of yourself as as as that. [01:32:57] But, you know, just hearing your story, you know, I can see the CEO and you in the police department. [01:33:03] Right. Taking the leadership and responsibility and accountability to to do things as heroic as saving someone's life to do, you know, stepping up and joining the police department at 18. [01:33:15] Right. I mean, you've been a CEO of your own company, which is you for several years. [01:33:19] And, you know, that's why I'd say I argue that that, you know, great leaders like yourself are always sort of CEOs in their own right in every aspect of their career. [01:33:30] I'm Bob. I don't know. We talked about this, but what are you reading? [01:33:34] Ah, yeah, we didn't talk about it. [01:33:38] I try to read a book a month. [01:33:40] Sometimes I fall down on that. [01:33:42] But one of the books I've been reading in a fact about a year ago, I was invited to present to the global kickoff for one of our big partners. [01:33:53] And I was the only partner there invited to to give a talk and. [01:33:59] And I talked about all the things I talked about in my mindset or whatever, and I I told them, especially the salespeople, I go, you really need to read the book. [01:34:10] Never split the difference by Rich Voss. [01:34:13] And I think that's a great book for those of you that don't know what that is, is Rich Voss used to be a former FBI hostage negotiator where he would negotiate bringing hopefully hostages back home safely that were kidnapped by terrorists. [01:34:30] And he has his own company now, but his things that he teaches you in that book in terms of negotiating and dealing with people are so relevant in the business world. [01:34:45] So relevant. [01:34:46] And you can learn about mirroring people and all these different things. [01:34:54] And I have that book today on my desk and every occasionally I'll still refer to it. [01:34:59] So that's really is the first book. [01:35:01] Never split the difference with Rich Voss. [01:35:05] Another one I read recently is Winning Now, Winning Later by David Cote. [01:35:11] Now, David used to be the CEO of Honeywell, and he talked about when he was brought in, how how Honeywell had really gone downhill and how what he had to do to turn it around. [01:35:24] And honestly, it was all about mindset. [01:35:28] He had to change the mindset of the company and the culture. [01:35:33] It was a fascinating book how he turned Honeywell around and under and using the same thoughts that I kind of gravitate to. [01:35:42] It's all about the mindset and how he did that. [01:35:45] And the last book I read recently is by a former Secret Service agent. [01:35:51] Her name is Eve Pomporis. [01:35:53] And unfortunately, it's relevant in today's world. [01:35:57] It's called Becoming Bulletproof. [01:35:59] And it talks about how you should be aware when you go out, how you should be aware to protect yourself and things that you should notice and observe and how you, you know, even where you sit in restaurants and those types of things. [01:36:17] And unfortunately, it has become extremely relevant in today's society that people should be aware of what can happen when you go out and the threats that are out there. [01:36:27] So that was a fascinating book to me that she wrote. [01:36:31] Again, she's a former Secret Service agent. [01:36:34] So those are the kind of the latest three books that I read. [01:36:37] Again, Never Slip the Difference is always on my desk and I keep referring to it. [01:36:42] Yeah, that was on my list of books to read. [01:36:46] I think I was in a room with Chris Ross on Clubhouse a few months ago. [01:36:51] He's on Clubhouse and there was a time where he was on Clubhouse. [01:36:56] I've heard him speak and it is an interesting book. [01:37:00] And I was going to say, Bob, on the other one, the last one that you just mentioned, I'm sure there was a lot of pages in there around keep your back to the wall and face the door. [01:37:11] Yeah, a lot of a lot of police tactics. [01:37:15] So, you know, I'll call them observation, observation skills, but a lot of tactics there. [01:37:20] So I'm sure that that's a good one. [01:37:22] Look, it is it is 9 32 p.m. Eastern Time. [01:37:25] Actually, we do have somebody to do raise a hand. [01:37:28] I will bring you up so you can ask your question above and then we're going to sort of close up the raise hand raising and be respectful of everybody's time and and conclude the room. [01:37:37] So if you want to join us, come on, Roger. [01:37:40] Good to hear from you, my friend. [01:37:42] Anything you want to ask Bob? [01:37:44] Yes, thank you for bringing me up. [01:37:47] I just kind of had a question based on something I heard Bob say about the threats that are out there just kind of made me curious to ask you guys, what do you think about the fact that with all the different intrusions that go on that, you know, if you're watching the right things, I guess you hear about. [01:38:08] But for the most part, they don't really make the national news. [01:38:12] They're not on people's radar, even though it's happening quite often. [01:38:17] But there's not that high alert amongst average people because it's not really it's not really advertised how much, you know, data is stolen and things are happening. [01:38:31] What do you think about that, that, you know, y'all are in the kind of in the bubble, so to speak. [01:38:36] So you may come across more of the information than the average person, but the average person, they really don't have any idea that things are actively happening. [01:38:45] People are actively breaching and things are happening. [01:38:49] So what do you think about, you know, that and, you know, just kind of broad question. [01:38:58] Yeah, my take on that is there's so much out there. [01:39:04] And at least from a company perspective, and I'm sure the CISOs on the stage will tell you that you have to pay attention based on what is the risk to your business in terms of that threat. [01:39:20] Yeah, it could be a threat. [01:39:22] But is that threat really a threat against your business? [01:39:25] It may be against a company on the West Coast because they do something different than they do. [01:39:31] It's not really a threat to you. So is it worth spending energy and time and money? [01:39:37] Yeah, probably not. So it depends on what the threat is and how relevant it is to your threat landscape. [01:39:47] And if it makes sense. And, you know, everything is, I can't explain why you don't hear about it. [01:39:55] There is so much news out there about cyber threats. [01:40:00] So I can't explain the intricacies of media, why they report things and why they don't. [01:40:07] Some of it could be political. Some of it could be, you know, depending on the size or who the victim is. [01:40:14] It makes for a good story. I don't know. [01:40:17] But or maybe it would affect business too much if they were, you know, afraid things were vulnerable. [01:40:24] Yeah, maybe. Yeah. [01:40:26] Yeah. But, you know, I wish I had the answer for that, but I can't explain, you know, why the media picks and chooses that I can't. [01:40:36] I think thanks for thanks for your question, Roger. And yeah, I wish I had a good explanation, but I do not as well. [01:40:46] I don't think I can say is people probably getting numb to it because it's happening. [01:40:50] Wait, hang on. Yep. Somebody just got breached right now. [01:40:53] It's happening every second. And and that's probably what it is. [01:40:57] It's just too many, too many big data breaches out there. Right. [01:41:00] If you think about the biggest one that happened, what was it? [01:41:03] I think target target or target. [01:41:06] I think that was one of the one of the biggest ones. [01:41:09] And that was, well, five, six years ago. [01:41:11] And we've come so far since then where that's no longer the biggest one. [01:41:16] So, yeah, I don't know. [01:41:18] But look, thanks for thanks for joining up, joining us and and asking you a question and joining the conversation. [01:41:25] So, moderators, any any final thoughts? [01:41:28] I do have the last question I asked Bob, but any final thoughts before we kind of get to wrapping up? [01:41:35] Just want to thank you again, Bob. [01:41:37] Always a pleasure seeing you in rooms. [01:41:39] And it was really nice to hear more of your voice and your story at length. [01:41:44] So thank you again. [01:41:45] Well, I appreciate it. Thank you. [01:41:48] I would agree. Thanks for joining us. [01:41:51] Sorry, Lisa. Yeah, 100 percent, Bob. [01:41:54] Bob, amazing. [01:41:55] I wrote my hand got tired from writing down notes of Bob isms, stories, lessons learned and really appreciate you spending this evening with us tonight. [01:42:04] Yeah. Thank you. [01:42:06] Great advice, Bob. [01:42:09] Thank you for joining us tonight. [01:42:11] And thanks for all the gold nuggets you dropped today. [01:42:15] And just just quickly before we sort of get to the last few minutes, I just want to remind everybody we do this every Wednesday between 8pm Eastern Time and 930pm Eastern Time or so. [01:42:30] We're in the or so time period. [01:42:32] If there's a little greenhouse on the top left of your screen. [01:42:34] If you're new to our clubhouse, our clubhouse group, it's called fireside chat little greenhouse. [01:42:40] You can join our our club. [01:42:42] If you will, you can listen to all the old older playbacks. [01:42:45] The one this evening, once it's once we conclude the room, you can see the playback if you missed anything. [01:42:50] And you'll get a letter to when we do this. [01:42:52] But as I said, we do this every Wednesday at 8pm Eastern Time. [01:42:55] Next week, we have Kate Fazzini joining us. [01:42:57] She's the director of information security at Ziff Davis. [01:43:01] I had a pleasure working with Kate many years ago at JP Morgan Chase. [01:43:04] And she used to be a reporter. [01:43:07] So it should be really interesting conversation that we'll have with Kate. [01:43:10] So I encourage you all to join us next week. [01:43:13] So, Bob, you've given a lot of advice and you kind of touched upon this a little bit. [01:43:17] So I don't want to get too repetitive here. [01:43:19] But, you know, I usually ask, like, if there was one piece of advice that you would share with the younger you, what is it and why? [01:43:25] And I think you've touched upon a little bit. [01:43:27] But if you wanted to expand upon that, maybe bring us home with that. [01:43:31] Yeah, I knew you were going to ask me this question. [01:43:34] And the way I look at that is there's only really one thing. [01:43:38] Because if I go beyond that, if I shared that with the younger me in terms of other thoughts, [01:43:44] then that would probably change the way I handled events and things, which would change the way that I developed and where I am today. [01:43:51] So I really wouldn't say anything other than patience. [01:43:55] Learn patience. [01:43:57] It's so important. [01:43:59] That was like a mic drop moment, but I was trying to flip through screens and I couldn't agree with you more about it, right? [01:44:13] You know, you said this earlier, and it was in the context of people that you mentor. [01:44:19] I think it was in the context of people that you mentor, people that want to get into the cybersecurity field. [01:44:24] And, you know, I hear a lot, not all the time. [01:44:30] I'm sure you do. [01:44:31] I'm sure you do and others, right? [01:44:32] I think it's a lot of people that are sort of starting out their careers and they, you know, they might see folks like yourself and me and others, you know, do what we do. [01:44:40] And it might seem very simplistic or easy. [01:44:42] And what they don't realize is that we put in 20 something years to make it look that way. [01:44:47] Right. And so having that patience to continue to grow, to learn, to nurture your own career, be the CEO of your own self, right? [01:44:55] Have your own personal board of directors to help you continue to grow in your space. [01:45:00] You know, it takes time and it takes that bit of patience. [01:45:03] And I know I was very unpatient early on in my career and I've learned to be more patient now. [01:45:08] I'll say in the last 10 or so years of my career. [01:45:12] But with patience comes so much opportunity and so much upside. [01:45:18] And you start to, you start to see the broader and the bigger picture in a way that, you know, things start to fall into place and they come together. [01:45:26] And, you know, that's probably one of the appreciations that I have of what I've been doing for the past 20 or so years doing the information security. [01:45:35] So I could I I that comment resonates so much with me. [01:45:39] So anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. [01:45:43] Bob, it's been a pleasure. [01:45:45] You know, it's been a pleasure having you chat with us. [01:45:49] It's been a pleasure hearing your story, you know, because we you asked several of us to be on your show and you asked to be on your show. [01:45:55] And you asked us about our story and we never sort of turned out the tables back around on you and ask you about yours. [01:46:01] And your story is a very, very fascinating one. [01:46:04] I'm happy that I was I'm happy and I'm privileged that I was here to hear it. [01:46:09] And, you know, we've got to connect that. [01:46:12] I'm sure one day I know you keep inviting me to go out to some event. [01:46:15] So Jersey, Bob, it's Jersey. It's a little far. [01:46:18] But I do want to make it out there and shake your hand and meet you in person because it's been a pleasure. [01:46:26] So I'll leave the final words for you. Bring us home. [01:46:29] Yeah. Well, first, I want to thank everyone. [01:46:31] You know, I'm honored to be here and I really appreciate. [01:46:34] Let me come on and talk a little bit, which I really don't do about myself. [01:46:40] You know, and one other thing we didn't cover in business and Tomas mentioned really quickly, you know, about two years ago, I started this CISO panel called A Day in the Life of a CISO. [01:46:51] And the reason I did that is I think there's always been a mystery about CISOs, the person behind the curtain. Right. [01:46:59] And and I never thought that. But I think they have a great story to tell. They're smart people. [01:47:04] And you need to listen to what they say. And Tomas was a guest on that panel. [01:47:09] So that's another way that myself and what trying to give back and enrich the community is get the CISOs out there and just listen what they have to say. [01:47:20] And you can learn so much. And that's kind of why I started that panel. [01:47:24] And so the panel will be again next Thursday. We have another CISO coming on. [01:47:28] So hopefully if you see it, go ahead and join the panel and discussion. [01:47:33] So but I really appreciate you letting me come on, tell my story. [01:47:38] And thanks, everyone. Thank you so much. [01:47:42] Thank you, everybody. And sorry we went a little bit over, but hopefully the time was well spent. [01:47:46] See you all next week. Cheers. Have a good rest of your week, everybody. [01:47:51] Bye, everybody. Thanks. [01:47:53] Night. [01:47:54] Bye, everyone. [01:47:56] Bye, everyone.