Fireside Chat w/Heather Gantt-Evans, CISO @ Sailpoint

[00:00:00] Hello, hello. [00:00:12] Heather, just a quick microphone check. [00:00:19] Can you hear me? [00:00:21] Hopefully you can hear me. [00:00:27] I can hear you, Tomas. [00:00:32] I was doing the pandemic classic of talking on mute. [00:00:38] No worries. [00:00:39] No worries at all. [00:00:41] So we'll get started in a few minutes here, but it's good to see you on. [00:00:48] Hey, Octavia. [00:00:50] Hey, Russell. [00:00:51] Hey, Katie. [00:00:52] Oh, we've got everybody joining. [00:00:53] I guess that's what happens when you start this room up a little bit closer to the start time, which is good. [00:01:00] The reason for that is because we are actually, we have replays on. [00:01:04] So I figured why not join a little bit closer to the start time? [00:01:09] That way people don't have to listen to 15 minutes of banter. [00:01:14] So they will just listen to five minutes of banter. [00:01:17] Anyways, just a quick microphone check there, Russell. [00:01:22] And Octavia, how are you doing? [00:01:23] Yes. [00:01:24] Hey, Tomas, Heather, Octavia, Katie. [00:01:26] Great to be back. [00:01:27] Looking forward to this evening. [00:01:29] All right. [00:01:30] All right. [00:01:31] I am good. [00:01:32] I'm good. [00:01:33] Just still working, unfortunately. [00:01:35] That's what happens when you have back-to-back meetings up until 530. [00:01:38] Yeah, no, I hear you. [00:01:40] I was dealing with traffic trying to rush home to be able to jump on a call. [00:01:46] So I'm glad I made it. [00:01:47] It is 7.55 p.m. Eastern time. [00:01:50] Thank you, folks in the audience who have just joined us or listened in for the past few minutes. [00:01:55] We will get started promptly at 8 p.m. Eastern time. [00:01:59] Heather, thank you for, one, agreeing to do this. [00:02:02] It should be a fun, fun evening this evening. [00:02:04] So I'm looking forward to it. [00:02:06] I'm counting on it. [00:02:08] I've got my glass of wine and this is going to be a fun time just chatting. [00:02:12] Awesome. [00:02:13] You've got the wine going. [00:02:16] That's good. [00:02:17] That's going to be, that makes it for an even better conversation. [00:02:19] Well, as long as you have your, you're sitting by your fireplace as well. [00:02:25] This is a fireside chat. [00:02:27] I am in Austin. [00:02:29] And so I don't know. [00:02:31] We have had it going a couple of times this year, but luckily we've had a much better [00:02:35] winter than what we experienced last year and what we've all locally dubbed Snowmageddon. [00:02:42] Yeah. [00:02:43] I do remember that last year. [00:02:44] Yeah. [00:02:45] Yeah. [00:02:46] You actually did get some snow, but I always feel like my friends in Austin are like, it's [00:02:51] so chilly. [00:02:52] It's 55. [00:02:53] I'm sitting by the fire. [00:02:54] And here I am. [00:02:55] It's negative, you know, three in Chicago. [00:02:58] I am that person. [00:03:00] Yeah. [00:03:01] That follows me everywhere. [00:03:05] I named him Wally after the beloved Disney film, and he's my constant companion. [00:03:10] So. [00:03:11] I love it. [00:03:12] That's awesome. [00:03:14] That's funny. [00:03:15] All right. [00:03:18] Just want to quickly get, I want to give a shout out to Tom who's in the audience, Tom [00:03:24] Ryan. [00:03:25] If you guys don't tune into Tom sort of a security mindset conversations, you're missing [00:03:31] out on really good topics. [00:03:32] He talks. [00:03:33] Anyways, you're missing out a lot of good topics. [00:03:37] You, my advice to you is follow Tom, follow and join his, his conversations. [00:03:41] Katie's usually on there. [00:03:42] Katie, I don't know if you are on there today, but I was on there while I was sort of driving [00:03:46] home. [00:03:47] So I don't, I don't usually get to participate on those calls cause I'm in my car and I know [00:03:52] Tom knows that even though he was, he was saying a few things earlier today that I don't, [00:03:57] I don't know, Tom. [00:03:58] I don't know. [00:03:59] No hacking of the cameras. [00:04:00] Okay, buddy. [00:04:01] No, no camera hacking. [00:04:03] No, no other system hacking, please. [00:04:06] We're trying to have a great, great, great event. [00:04:09] Tom knows what I'm talking about. [00:04:11] Anyway. [00:04:12] Well, if I can say something too, I want to concur. [00:04:15] Next week's guest as well too. [00:04:18] Right. [00:04:19] Oh, Tom is. [00:04:20] Yeah. [00:04:21] Tom is actually, he is absolutely next week. [00:04:24] I thought I'd call that out. [00:04:25] Yeah. [00:04:26] I know. [00:04:27] That would be awesome. [00:04:28] And to your point, I have had the privilege of being able to spend a lot of hours with Tom [00:04:32] in the security mindset club rooms. [00:04:34] And it's, I am so excited for, for next week. [00:04:37] So I just thought he's in the room. [00:04:39] Just thought I'd point out. [00:04:40] He actually is our guest next week as well. [00:04:42] Yeah. [00:04:43] And he was complaining. [00:04:44] He was complaining. [00:04:45] He was complaining earlier today, saying that he was going to be pulling a marathon [00:04:49] back to back rooms. [00:04:51] Cause he had to do his, and then he had to do ours. [00:04:53] I'm joking. [00:04:54] He wasn't complaining. [00:04:55] He was, he was just promoting as well. [00:04:58] So look, it's going to be a great conversation next week. [00:05:00] I'm sure. [00:05:01] So it is 7.58 PM Eastern time. [00:05:05] We'll give a few moments for, for some of the moderators or the rest of the moderators [00:05:10] to join us. [00:05:11] So, um, uh, while we do that, I just want to quickly go over a few sort of housekeeping items. [00:05:18] If you are new to our fireside chat, uh, there's a little greenhouse on the top left of your screen. [00:05:23] Uh, it looks like a little green monopoly house. [00:05:25] You can click that house and, uh, join our fireside chat club. [00:05:29] That'll what that, what does that do? [00:05:31] Um, well, really what it does, it allows you to see who our next guests are. [00:05:35] So you can kind of scroll through and see, uh, the upcoming guests and you can add the, uh, the event to your calendar. [00:05:41] So, uh, obviously join the club, uh, if you haven't already and, uh, and you will be alerted to, uh, to, uh, to who our next guests are. [00:05:50] Um, we have a very basic rules, uh, rule number one, and I don't want to call them rules, but I'll call it guardrails for the, for the fireside chat. [00:05:58] Right. [00:05:59] One is let's have fun. [00:06:00] Let's have a really good discussion. [00:06:01] It's the middle of the week. [00:06:03] We've all had long days. [00:06:04] Uh, I'm sure, uh, we've got, we're halfway through the week and, and, uh, you know, this should be a free flowing candid conversation. [00:06:12] Uh, enjoy and get to know our guests. [00:06:15] Um, and I'll say, let's get to know our guests more from a, from a personal standpoint. [00:06:20] Let's learn about their journey. [00:06:22] Uh, you know, their origin story, where they, how did they get to where they, where they are today? [00:06:27] Um, and what sort of inspires and motivates them. [00:06:30] Uh, so really use this as an opportunity to do that. [00:06:33] Uh, if you want to jump on stage, we will open up the room after about 30 to 40 minutes or so of us asking our guests questions. [00:06:41] We will, we will open it up for the audience to sort of raise your hand. [00:06:44] You can pop up on stage and ask a question. [00:06:46] Uh, we ask that you please, please, please, please, please do not jump on stage to sell us on your product, your solution. [00:06:52] I do know that our guest is the CISO at SailPoint. [00:06:55] We're not really going to be talking about SailPoint. [00:06:57] Uh, this is not really intended to, to be a sales East sort of a event. [00:07:01] Uh, it's really to get to know Heather. [00:07:03] And, and, and, and as I mentioned, get to know her and her journey and what is she struggling with? [00:07:07] What is she reading? [00:07:08] Right? [00:07:09] So let's really use this as a conversation, uh, to get to know our guests more on a more, uh, I'll say, I'll say non work related if you will. [00:07:17] Right. [00:07:18] Um, uh, so please keep your, uh, your great ideas, your great products, uh, pictures, uh, maybe for not this discussion for another discussion, um, at a later date. [00:07:27] And then, um, I think I had all the ground rules, right? [00:07:31] Or the guard rules. [00:07:32] Did I get them all Russell or Katie? [00:07:34] Did I miss one? [00:07:35] Yeah, there are. [00:07:36] And then some people may be able to speak just for themselves and not for their companies, but yeah, that's it. [00:07:41] It's like, it's like a machine. [00:07:42] You, you crank out the rules, you set expectations and make sure we have good time every Wednesday. [00:07:46] That's right. [00:07:47] And thanks for that, Russell. [00:07:48] So most of us, our comments and opinions are our own and do not represent our current or prior employers. [00:07:54] So please keep that in mind. [00:07:56] Anyways, without further ado, it is 8.01 PM Eastern time. [00:07:59] We're happy to be here. [00:08:00] Uh, Heather, we're going to go around the room and introduce ourselves. [00:08:03] We will, we will leave you for last. [00:08:05] Um, so I'm going to start. [00:08:07] I'm Tomas Maldonado. [00:08:08] I am the CISO for a major sports and entertainment league. [00:08:12] Actually, probably the largest sports and entertainment league across the globe. [00:08:17] I'll go on record and saying that Octavia over to you. [00:08:21] Sure. [00:08:22] My name is Octavia Howell. [00:08:23] I am the CISO for Equifax Canada. [00:08:27] And hey everybody, Russell Eubanks here, former CISO for the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta. [00:08:31] The last couple of years been doing some consulting, a lot more teaching with SANS and working with a bunch of cool companies. [00:08:37] And tell you, if you don't have Wednesday, 8 PM Eastern time already on your schedule, the speakers change, but we're always here. [00:08:45] We're always eager to share and be able to learn from each other. [00:08:48] You're missing out and highly encourage you to do that. [00:08:51] Katie over to you. [00:08:53] Hi, good evening. [00:08:54] I'm Katie Hanahan. [00:08:55] I am the VP of cybersecurity strategy, um, for an SI out of Chicago, um, and also a VC. [00:09:02] So and run our VC. [00:09:03] So program. [00:09:04] So looking forward to a really great conversation tonight. [00:09:06] Heather, welcome to the stage. [00:09:09] And Heather, without further ado. [00:09:12] So Heather is the, is the CISO at SailPoint. [00:09:16] Heather, I'll give you a moment to introduce yourself. [00:09:18] And while you're going through your, your sort of introduction, you know, I always like to ask the, the, this first question and it's about your origin story. [00:09:26] So why don't you spend some time telling us about you and your origin story, you know, and what sort of motivates you. [00:09:31] So I'll pass it over to you. [00:09:33] Yeah. [00:09:34] Thanks Tomas. [00:09:35] And, and I'm, I'm glad that, you know, we've got the green lights and our, in our wine, the personal and the work, because, you know, I think where we land ourselves in our career is very much so based upon who we are in our background. [00:09:48] And so my origin story. [00:09:50] And so my origin story, well, I, I grew up in a, in a, a small Northeast Texas town with no, no, no real people to look up to as from the perspective of, you know, corporate lifestyle. [00:10:08] Right. [00:10:09] Like, like, definitely my, I had some exposure to some really scrappy entrepreneurs and hardworking people. [00:10:18] Uh, but my, I definitely didn't foresee myself in, in corporate America growing up. [00:10:24] And in fact, um, I, um, like many small town girls, um, uh, ended up in, uh, engaged very young and became a teen mom. [00:10:36] And so at 19, I found myself as a teen mom and I was always a really good student. [00:10:43] I graduated a year early from high school and was trying to figure out how to make college work as a single mom. [00:10:50] Um, and it wasn't. [00:10:52] So, um, I joined the military and, um, uh, the U S army reserves offered me, uh, an opportunity to get some training and some transferable job skills, like a, a security clearance and, um, training on how to be an intelligence analyst and, um, offered to pay me to go to school. [00:11:14] Right. [00:11:15] So I went and I did my training and, um, I came back and finished my degrees. [00:11:22] I, I got an undergrad in sociology, which is once again, does not point to the path of technology whatsoever, but I was so thankful for that experience and so passionate about sociology, um, because it really strips down your ego, um, and forces you to think of, of everybody, um, in a different light. [00:11:44] Um, but I ultimately did some calculations, right? [00:11:48] I was like, well, I need to get a really strong, financially stable career for me and my daughter. [00:11:55] Um, and so I ended up doing a master's degree in technology management. [00:12:02] I was so scared. [00:12:03] You guys, I was not the person that had spent time, uh, tearing apart computers and putting them back together or even playing a bunch of computer games. [00:12:13] I was not a computer person. [00:12:14] Um, but I knew that technology, like many of your guests on the podcast today, um, offered me a path to stability and that was really, really attractive. [00:12:25] And so I entered that program. [00:12:29] And, um, in my last semester got picked up by Booz Allen Hamilton, uh, to be a government contractor for the Air Force. [00:12:38] And I initially got picked up for a contract where I was helping Air Force Real Property Agency, uh, to define their IT governance and their IT business requirements for information sharing platforms, such as SharePoint and helping to administer those platforms. [00:12:58] Uh, but I just so happened to luck out in that there was an, uh, a government contract position with Booz Allen that opened up for a cyber threat intelligence analyst role at Air Force Cyber Command, which was in San Antonio, which is where I was at at the time. [00:13:16] And so they said, Hey, Heather, you got trained as, you know, an all source threat intelligence analyst for the army. [00:13:26] And we know that's more ground warfare specific and geopolitical. [00:13:31] Uh, but you also have this master's degree in tech management. [00:13:34] So we're hoping you can figure out cyber threat intel really quickly. [00:13:39] They said, well, you interview with the government civilian hiring for the role and see if you make the, make the cut. [00:13:48] I said, sure. [00:13:49] Yeah, that sounds great. [00:13:51] Um, and so I did an interview with this government civilian. [00:13:54] And his name is Patrick Grant and I'll never forget him. [00:13:58] He's the kindest, gentlest man I've ever met and so sharp. [00:14:02] And, uh, he saw something in me that I didn't necessarily see in myself and took a chance on me. [00:14:09] And he really, um, uh, took me in under his wing and, uh, helped train me. [00:14:17] And, uh, he helped coach me on things like my worth, uh, in the, the field and made sure that I was aware of it when, you know, difficult, you know, discussions around salary came up and everything. [00:14:32] And he was just, he was a wonder. [00:14:34] And I really loved that position, not only because of him, but because, uh, cyber threat intelligence is a really great area to get started in cyber. [00:14:43] And the reason is because you're reading all of this threat reporting every single day. [00:14:49] And so you're learning about threat activity and how threat actors technically execute their attacks. [00:14:57] And so I was just writing down word after word every day to go Google later and make sure I understood all the concepts I was reading. [00:15:07] And after a couple of years of that and doing reporting up to the Pentagon, I said, I think I'm ready for a more technical hands on role. [00:15:17] Like I feel comfortable with this and I'm ready for a new challenge. [00:15:22] So at that time, uh, cyber command was setting up what they were called cyber protection teams. [00:15:29] And these were specialized kind of fusion cells that did both offensive and defensive missions. [00:15:37] And I asked to get moved to one of those because I wanted to see operations in real life. [00:15:44] And so that was really cool because I got to do hands-on reverse engineering of malware or, um, host based and network based intrusion analysis or helping to, uh, plan threat hunting missions or red team missions. [00:16:07] And so it was really wide array of exposure of how threat intelligence can get integrated, um, and extracted from all of these different operator roles. [00:16:18] Um, I loved that, that role, but shortly after I got referred to ENY. [00:16:26] And at the time ENY was working to build out their cyber threat intelligence service offering. [00:16:34] And, um, uh, a friend referred me to the, the senior manager building out the practice and said, Heather is really good at threat intel. [00:16:42] You should bring her on board. [00:16:44] And my first, my first role was for a fortune 50 manufacturing firm that had been, uh, sold an entire sock bill to include a threat intel program. [00:16:58] That was of course going to do all of the fancy things like predictive analytics and all of this. [00:17:03] And they said, Heather, go build it. [00:17:04] And, and so, um, I did, and that was, uh, a really fun experience, um, figuring out the nuances and how, uh, right sizing operations for the military versus commercial sector, which is very different. [00:17:20] Um, and all in all, I spent five years at ENY. [00:17:25] I traveled across the country meeting like multiple players at fortune 100s. [00:17:31] And, um, I just kept raising my hand to take on something new. [00:17:35] So I started with building out cyber threat intel programs. [00:17:39] And then I said, you know what? [00:17:41] I think I could build out an active defense program, which is what we were calling at the time, which is focused on proactive threat hunting. [00:17:50] And hardening, um, against, uh, threat intelligence, um, like indicators of compromise and all of that. [00:18:00] Um, and so I did that and I said, wait, I think I can build out a whole sock. [00:18:08] And so I, I would always tell my EY manager at the time, like, will you look for an engagement for me to do this? [00:18:14] And they would inevitably find one. [00:18:16] And so then I got to build out some security operation centers and some cyber exercise programs. [00:18:23] And, um, then got involved in some of the biggest banks in America, helping build out their cyber resilience programs, which was something they're really on the, um, they've been leading the way for, you know, planning for these worst case cyber triggered business disasters. [00:18:39] Or in the case of financial sector, they're really entire industry disasters potentially. [00:18:44] And so the, the concept is to connect your security operations center to, uh, uh, typical business enterprise resilience functions like disaster recovery, business continuity, crisis management, PR, legal, and making sure everybody's aligned on the work streams, decisions, um, and resources needed to coordinate and execute a response. [00:19:11] And the event of ransomware or network down scenarios or anything like that. [00:19:18] So that was really thrilling. [00:19:21] Um, but about that time I raised my hand and I said, you know what, I want to focus on an entire cybersecurity program. [00:19:27] And so poor manager, I just kept wearing them out. [00:19:30] Um, but he found me an engagement. [00:19:33] Um, Steve Ward had just gotten to the Home Depot and wanted some big four consultants to come in and help assess the current state maturity of the program, design the overarching strategy based off of the findings in the current state. [00:19:50] And then redesign the organization and, um, um, get the project management office set up to execute. [00:19:58] So I did that. [00:20:00] It ended up turning into like a three month long job interview, which was really stressful. [00:20:04] Um, but he ended up hiring me in 2019 to lead his, um, security operations and cyber resilience team. [00:20:13] Um, we grew that team from 33 to 150, um, and less than two years. [00:20:21] And so I was leading half of his organization and operating in a WC. [00:20:26] So capacity, um, when, uh, I got reached out to by an executive recruiter about a confidential CISO opportunity in Austin. [00:20:37] And at that time I was living in Austin and, um, CISO opportunities weren't very common in Austin. [00:20:44] We don't have a huge CISO community here. [00:20:47] Um, so, or at least at that time we didn't. [00:20:50] Uh, so I did entertain that discussion and found out that the hiring manager was Grady Summers at SailPoint and that my boss at Home Depot knew him. [00:21:03] And I've been so lucky to have these managers, um, throughout my career who I could speak openly to about my career ambitions where I say, you know, I want to get put on a different type of engagement or I want a new challenge. [00:21:16] Um, to where I knew I could tell Steve that, Hey, this opportunity came about and I had told him about other opportunities before. [00:21:23] He would say, no, you're too good for that. [00:21:25] But this one, he said, no, that's a great deal. [00:21:28] That's a great opportunity. [00:21:29] And I know Grady and I'll give him a call. [00:21:32] And so that's how I ended up here. [00:21:34] And that's kind of my origin story. [00:21:39] That's great. [00:21:40] That's great. [00:21:41] It's so much there to unpack. [00:21:43] And I, um, I think you really set us off to, to be able to, to get, to dig in a little bit deeper on certain areas there. [00:21:50] So, um, really, really interesting background. [00:21:54] Uh, if you just joined us, it's 8.15 PM Eastern time. [00:21:58] Uh, we're going to ask Heather a few more questions. [00:22:01] Let her drink some, some wine. [00:22:02] I was going to say water. [00:22:03] Let her drink some more wine. [00:22:04] Uh, or, or red water, we'll call it for the, for the, this evening. [00:22:08] And then Octavia, I'll pass it over to you. [00:22:12] Yeah, it's actually just fruit juice. [00:22:13] She's having a fruit salad right now. [00:22:16] Very healthy. [00:22:17] Very healthy. [00:22:19] No. [00:22:19] Heather, your, uh, your origin story is awesome. [00:22:23] And one of the things that I noticed, I think you called it out, is that you always have been able to kind of speak up. [00:22:31] Um, I want to kind of unpack that a little bit and kind of, you know, what, figure out where did that come from? [00:22:38] Um, where do you think that you had the ability? [00:22:41] Because you said when you went, did your master's degree, you were, you were scared. [00:22:44] So, most of us are scared to speak up. [00:22:47] So, how were you afraid of a master's degree, but you were able to navigate and move around everywhere else? [00:22:54] Yeah, um, first of all, I think that, um, it's important for us to all remember that you never know how impactful little words of encouragement are to people. [00:23:04] So, like, I know it sounds silly or minute, but having people around me respond to my performance and provide me words of encouragement, um, built that confidence over time. [00:23:20] It was, it was not internally built. [00:23:23] It was built by kind people that, um, you know, recognize and, uh, acknowledge contributions, right? [00:23:32] And, and that when you're having a hard time, tell you that it's normal to have a hard time and that you're doing great navigating it. [00:23:41] So, um, all the people that gave those little words of encouragement helped. [00:23:46] Um, but also, I think, um, particularly while I was at EMI and, um, particularly working for, for Steve, um, when you have the opportunity to really, um, get to know your manager, um, when your manager spends time, um, you know, doing brainstorming sessions with you, um, and, uh, just one-on-one or taking you out. [00:24:16] For, um, um, for, um, dinner and drinks and talking about real life, you know, and not just about work. [00:24:25] You kind of start seeing each other in the light as a whole person, not just a person that works for me. [00:24:31] Right. [00:24:32] And, um, I, I feel like, um, my leadership invested that time in getting to know me. [00:24:39] And I got to know them to where we could view each other as whole people and talk about our aspirations and dreams and goals, whether it meant working for them on their project still or somebody else's project or somebody else's company. [00:24:55] No, that's actually awesome. [00:25:04] So it was just like, just the encouragement. [00:25:06] And so, you know, a lot of times in this industry, I feel like, you know, and I'm not sure where it comes from, but I feel like sometimes people aren't necessarily getting their encouragement that they need. [00:25:19] Um, where do you, you know, where do you think, or what, to you, what would be a good leadership trait or something that would actually help in kind of developing those who are maybe just coming into the industry, um, and maybe need a little bit of either encouragement or getting to know people? [00:25:38] Or like, what do you think just a good trait for that leadership is? [00:25:42] I, I, let me speak in like tangible, uh, experiences that stood out to me. [00:25:48] Right. [00:25:49] Um, one time James Phillippe at E&Y wrote me a handwritten letter. [00:25:56] Like, I still have it. [00:25:59] Uh, that meant a lot to me or at E&Y, we had challenge coins like you do in the military. [00:26:06] And they would issue you those challenge coins with a handshake in front of everybody at our all hands, you know, or we would have, um, you know, spot bonuses, uh, for a job well done. [00:26:20] And occasionally we get, get one of those with a nice note on why, you know, um, I had, uh, uh, a leader, um, uh, stay an extra hour after a client meeting with me. [00:26:36] One time. [00:26:36] And I asked for feedback and he gave me feedback, um, that helped build my courage. [00:26:44] He said, you have a lot of good ideas and you didn't, you didn't say them in the meeting. [00:26:50] And, uh, I, I know why it's because some of the message is hard to hear because it means that client needs to fix something, but never apologize for a good idea. [00:27:01] Um, and that stood out to me, or I had, um, I had a manager who, um, my brother was in a horrible car accident and, um, he just sat there and let me cry on the phone to him. [00:27:17] Uh, and, uh, then he, he sent a walker for my, uh, brother's rehab, you know, like it's moments like these that, uh, really, really stand out in people, um, for their whole life. [00:27:34] Yeah, that's awesome. [00:27:38] Um, that is, and I think that's something that all of us can kind of take away and kind of, you know, build up our leadership muscle in as well. [00:27:46] Thank you, Heather, for sharing that. [00:27:48] Yeah. [00:27:48] Thank you, Octavia. [00:27:53] Heather, it's such a delight to have you here. [00:27:55] I've been writing down things that you've been saying, and I think I need another page. [00:27:58] Uh, it's just so, so rich. [00:28:00] And first of all, you know, thanks for your service to our country and all the things that the journey that you've done, uh, from Teen Mom to CISO, uh, and then some weaves and bobs along the way, uh, to get there is just, uh, inspiring, uh, and extraordinary. [00:28:15] So that's, uh, just mega impressed there. [00:28:18] And I love that theme you said over and over again. [00:28:21] You said, I raised my hand, that it was very encouraging to me to hear that. [00:28:24] And I'm sure for the audience to say that, you know, you decided to be brave. [00:28:29] You decided to take action and, uh, the results you have, uh, there just, just extraordinary. [00:28:34] My question, uh, for you, uh, is you talked about IT governance. [00:28:39] Mm-hmm. [00:28:39] Do you see a place where us as cybersecurity leaders or people that want to be cybersecurity leaders can, you know, apply that or lean into that a little bit more and maybe describe what some of the benefits would be of that, uh, security or IT governance? [00:28:57] Oh, yes. [00:28:58] Um, so IT governance affects so much of our daily lives as cybersecurity practitioners, whether we know it or not. [00:29:06] Right. [00:29:06] So, um, I think about, uh, what, what we call IT front door process at SailPoint or what might be called application onboarding or architectural review type board, uh, other companies where, um, go or no go decisions are made, you know, to, um, uh, approve the usage of certain applications or systems. [00:29:33] Um, um, and understanding the criteria that they use for that and plugging into that process is, is so important. [00:29:42] And having mutually defined service level agreements, uh, for, um, services that are cross-dependent between cybersecurity and IT is so important because it helps us speak in a quantitative way about demand planning. [00:30:04] Right. [00:30:05] Um, at the end of the day, um, at the end of the day, cybersecurity resources are limited, just like our partners' resources are limited. [00:30:12] And cybersecurity professionals every single day have to make trade-offs on where to put their time and how to prioritize it. [00:30:20] And we have to help our partners do that. [00:30:23] And, and having, um, strong shared metrics, um, on those cross-team dependencies really, really helps with that. [00:30:32] Um, and then change management, right? [00:30:35] Ensuring that we're all aligned on the change management, management processes. [00:30:40] So that way, if security makes changes, IT trusts the hygiene to those changes. [00:30:45] Aligning on what the break glass plan is, if you need to roll back that change, right? [00:30:51] There's so many interconnections between IT and security, um, and, uh, how IT is governed that I think it takes a, it, it's, uh, high return to take some time to understand. [00:31:08] Wow, that's fantastic. [00:31:09] Let me ask, uh, just a follow-up question to that. [00:31:11] It'll be my last one for now. [00:31:13] Do you think that, uh, cyber, us in cyber are a little bit behind or ahead or on the same schedule as being mature or leaning into that topic of governance? [00:31:23] Do you think that's new to us or, um, or kind of the same or what would you suggest? [00:31:30] I, I think that, um, my personal experience is that I think that, uh, security tends to take an attitude of, [00:31:43] this is a security matter and you need to get it done and we don't take enough interest in how IT works day to day. [00:31:51] Um, and that when we do take that interest, we're able to better speak their language and help equip them to make the business cases they need to support us. [00:32:00] Um, and, um, and I do find that security is always going to be the one pushing on the maturity of IT for those areas we depend on them, right? [00:32:11] So whether it be patch management, asset management, identity security, if that's where the identity program sits, um, those are some heavy, heavy dependencies to the success of cybersecurity. [00:32:24] And, um, um, they're, they're not necessarily, uh, areas where, um, uh, IT is going to organically mature to the level that we need them. [00:32:36] And so being able to communicate our requirements through partnership and, um, uh, you know, speak their language on how they can help integrate it into their operations. [00:32:48] It goes a long way as opposed to kind of the, the stick route where we just say, you just need to do it. [00:32:59] Wow. [00:33:00] Um, that that's mind blowing. [00:33:02] I'm so glad I followed up on that. [00:33:04] And thank you. [00:33:05] Thank you so much, Katie over to you. [00:33:08] Well, thank you. [00:33:09] Yeah. [00:33:09] I've been taking some notes too. [00:33:10] And, um, I really, uh, I align with you on some of the things from your early origin story. [00:33:15] And, um, one of the things I wanted to kind of hone in on a little bit, um, is the small Texas town. [00:33:21] I'm a small town in Illinois girl. [00:33:24] Um, and what you said about, um, never foreseeing this to be your life. [00:33:29] The fact that I'm sitting here talking to you and with this group of people, I'm always just tickled to death. [00:33:33] I have moments all the time where I just think, how did I get here from my small town in Illinois to this place? [00:33:39] Um, we're always looking for diverse talent. [00:33:42] And, um, I love the way that you found your way through the reserves, um, based on your own set of experiences. [00:33:49] And by the way, I graduated early from high school too. [00:33:52] So, um, yeah, and I was a mom at 21, not 19, but point is I also was getting figured out how do you get through college? [00:33:59] And, um, I, I identified with you and appreciated that, um, part of your journey. [00:34:05] Um, but really just thinking about, you know, you continued to be able to have these opportunities. [00:34:11] Um, you mentioned a lot of really great, um, experiences where you were able to have mentors and feel like you could raise your hand, um, leaning into all these different types of programs as well. [00:34:23] Um, so first I almost just really wanted to call out the fact that, you know, I love that, um, people who are in positions of leadership saw something in you. [00:34:33] Um, that was my experience as well. [00:34:35] And I want to remind everyone in the room that is in, uh, you know, positions of leadership that sometimes it does take, you know, somebody leaning in and just saying, I see something in this person that I believe in, you know, to kind of set the trajectory. [00:34:49] Um, but you mentioned all of these amazing programs that you built, um, and especially like kind of the transition from working with the, you know, DOD. [00:34:57] And by the way, I also worked with the DOD for eight years of my career, the first eight years of my career. [00:35:01] So I, I transitioned from developing programs for, um, the department of defense then to, how does that translate into fortune 500 companies? [00:35:10] Um, I guess you have so many different programs. [00:35:13] Is there one thing that you're most proud of, um, that you built yourself? [00:35:17] And I imagine it could be the whole cybersecurity program or it could be something, one of your first wins, but I'd love to hear more about that. [00:35:24] Yeah. [00:35:25] Yeah. [00:35:26] Oh my goodness. [00:35:27] Uh, I feel like that's like picking a child, you know, because every time you build a program, you just, you know, it's like a baby almost. [00:35:37] Um, uh, but I, I think that I so far most proud of what we've been able to accomplish where I'm at right now. [00:35:51] Um, and the reason being is I've, we've been able to grow the team here at Sellpoint, um, by 250% in less than a year. [00:36:05] Um, and, um, they've, uh, I, we worked so hard last year to align across all the services and security to be able to define the priorities for this year that we now find ourselves in. [00:36:26] Um, um, and it was such a collaborative process. [00:36:31] I've got a team that really puts their egos aside and is focused on passion to do the right thing for securing the business. [00:36:41] And that, uh, that makes discussions that have been, you know, pretty much all out brawls at other places around prioritizing resources. [00:36:53] And what are we going to, you know, allocate these funds to, um, if those discussions weren't almost not even discussions here. [00:37:03] So by October, by September of last year, we were all aligned on the priorities for the next two years. [00:37:12] Um, and, uh, we entered budgeting conversations in a unified front with optionality for our senior executive team. [00:37:23] On how they wanted to accelerate the program. [00:37:26] Right. [00:37:27] And, uh, we, we landed in a beautiful spot where we are all feeling supportive and can get our priorities done. [00:37:35] There were some things that had to be, you know, moved to next year, but we were all aligned about it and there were no hurt feelings. [00:37:41] And I know that sounds small, but I've been at places where was there for two years and never got aligned on priorities. [00:37:50] So to have, you know, brought together a brand new team between February and September of last year and to have already been aligned on the next two years priorities. [00:38:04] Um, I was really proud of that. [00:38:05] Um, I can, I can see why, uh, that's an incredible, um, it's incredible story. [00:38:12] And it's, um, it, it's, it's rare. [00:38:15] Um, fundamentally, a lot of us feel like we, you know, we're doing the right thing to support the business. [00:38:21] Um, but the fact that you have a team that you were able to lead into being able to put their egos aside leads me also to believe that is, is it a, uh, it's kind of a culture question. [00:38:31] Do you feel like, um, or just some tips on how to create that kind of culture? [00:38:35] Um, it doesn't happen. [00:38:37] Um, I know it's maybe hiring the right people or, um, but a lot of that is building that culture. [00:38:42] So do you have any tips on how you're able to provide an environment where doing the right thing for the business and setting egos aside just becomes so natural for your, your team? [00:38:53] Um, that's really very intuitive and I would like to take credit for that fully, but I did walk into a company, uh, where our CEO has written a book on joy and success at work. [00:39:07] And one of the things he starts the book off with was we don't hire or tolerate smart jerks. [00:39:16] And, um, I was like, right on, you know, we've all kind of dealt with that person in our career. [00:39:22] Right. [00:39:23] Um, and so I was pretty thrilled about that. [00:39:27] And sure enough, I, I got here and, um, you know, there's some, from a security perspective, you always have to deliver a message of we need to be doing more. [00:39:38] Right. [00:39:38] Because we always need to be doing more because the adversary is always doing more. [00:39:42] And a lot of times that's a uphill conversation on talk on arguing the why. [00:39:47] Right. [00:39:48] I've not once had to argue the why here. [00:39:50] Everybody here is very collaborative. [00:39:53] Um, we talk about timing, we talk about prioritization, but we're never arguing the why. [00:39:58] And then to, to your point also, um, I, I hired people, um, who are empathetic. [00:40:09] And to me, like, that's the most important thing that you can be. [00:40:14] Um, I, like growing up, I, my, my mom was an addict. [00:40:20] Um, and not everybody knew that because, um, I lived with my grandmother during the week and visit her on the weekend. [00:40:28] And, um, sometimes people didn't understand my disposition or why something was hard for me. [00:40:34] Um, and, and then going to high school, I ended up graduating early just because girls are so mean, you know? [00:40:40] And so, like, very early on, it was programmed into me that, like, empathy is, like, the most important trait you can have. [00:40:48] Like, just don't ever assume that you know what somebody's going through, you know? [00:40:53] Such great advice. [00:40:54] Yeah. [00:40:55] Thank you so much for that, uh, that insight. [00:40:57] Um, uh, I will, uh, that was my final question. [00:41:01] I'll pass the mic over to Steven. [00:41:03] Thank you, Heather. [00:41:05] Yep. [00:41:06] Thanks, Katie. [00:41:07] Uh, hi, Heather. [00:41:08] Uh, sorry if I missed the intros. [00:41:10] I came in a little late as it was evident that the camera was about to start panning around in this movie and show the cape that you were wearing when you were talking about cyber threat intelligence. [00:41:19] Um, right. [00:41:20] I'm Steven Garcia. [00:41:21] I'm the VP of cybersecurity at FanDuel. [00:41:24] Uh, my thoughts are my own, et cetera, et cetera. [00:41:26] Um, I imagine Tomas already put all those disclaimers out. [00:41:29] Uh, first of all, thank you for your service. [00:41:31] Uh, I really do encourage people to, to hire service members as, as best they could. [00:41:38] Um, one of my direct reports is, is a major in the 261st Cyber Operations Squadron, um, for the National Guard, California National Guard. [00:41:47] I'm definitely thinking you guys are going to want to exchange notes. [00:41:50] Yeah. [00:41:50] Um, but I do think that she'd want me to ask the following question. [00:41:54] So, um, how much of what you saw in, in, in service applied or shifted your perspective for what you see in the private sector? [00:42:03] Um, not including challenge coins. [00:42:05] Yeah. [00:42:06] Um, because I think, I think it would be helpful for, for people in our roles in particular in leadership, uh, to, to, to be in a better position to understand what it is that we may need to do different to try to hire more service members. [00:42:18] Uh, so anything you can set some light on there would be super helpful. [00:42:24] Yeah. [00:42:25] Um, I have a few different angles to approach that response. [00:42:28] So let me start with one of them. [00:42:29] Um, the first is that service members who, especially who've operated in cybersecurity for the military or government, um, are used to an entirely different scale. [00:42:41] So I remember, for example, as a threat intel analyst, we had threat intelligence teams at the strategic level, the operational level and the tactical level. [00:42:53] Um, and at each level, there were analysts dedicated to an entire country, right? [00:43:00] So you had full coverage of the globe. [00:43:02] Um, that is not transferable scale, right? [00:43:06] For, um, you know, even some of the most, uh, elite, uh, security operations centers within financial sector, right? [00:43:15] Um, so I think the first thing is like, um, military service members, um, transitioning into commercial sector have to rethink scale entirely. [00:43:29] Um, and that's 100% achievable. [00:43:32] It just takes some, uh, willingness to be in discovery mode on what good looks like instead of assuming, right? [00:43:42] Um, the second thing is like military service members, when they transfer, they're going to bring a lot of awesome things. [00:43:51] Um, and I say that because, um, military, uh, teaches you not to leave anybody behind. [00:43:59] The military teaches you to understand what's going on in your service members life, uh, because that affects their psychology and their ability to perform under stress. [00:44:12] And so I don't know if we think about that enough in commercial sector, like what is this person's ability to perform under stress right now? [00:44:22] Right? [00:44:22] Like, are we really thinking about that? [00:44:24] Um, and what home factors are contributing to that calculation? [00:44:29] Because a military member is going to be thinking about it that way. [00:44:33] They're also going to be thinking about things in terms of single point of failure. [00:44:37] You can drill that into your head in the military, like no single point of failure. [00:44:42] And so the, the way, um, that translated to me in commercial sector is documentation is key. [00:44:49] Like I want anybody, uh, service, um, in the cybersecurity program, let's say vulnerability management. [00:44:56] I want that, uh, onboarding guide for their service documented to a T. [00:45:01] I want them to have a service manual that clearly outlines, uh, how it is they go about things from an operating model and interaction model and racy perspective. [00:45:10] Um, I want all the process and procedures and playbooks documented, right? [00:45:16] Um, that way you don't have single point of failure based off of personality, um, that becomes a linchpin, right? [00:45:23] Because you don't have the documentation to rotate that personality out. [00:45:28] Um, so I think that's, that's some of what I would bring up in response to that question. [00:45:33] Yeah, you hit some interesting points there. [00:45:36] Cause I, I, I'm trying to think why the consideration toward personnel life isn't as intense in commercial as it is in, in service. [00:45:46] Uh, but I, I think you hit it there because it is a factor in how people perform. [00:45:51] Right. [00:45:51] I think in, in the commercial sector, you're kind of used to this. [00:45:54] Um, yeah, okay. [00:45:56] I don't have to like the person, but just work with them and, you know, we'll just keep it at bare minimum, but from a operational readiness and security perspective, it does make sense. [00:46:03] So thank you for that highlight. [00:46:05] Um, yeah, of course. [00:46:08] Uh, I will pass it on to Lisa. [00:46:11] Hello. [00:46:11] Hello. [00:46:12] Um, it's time for our friendly room reset. [00:46:15] Um, my name is Lisa Beth Lentini Walker. [00:46:18] I am the CEO of Lumen Worldwide Entenbers, which is a compliance ethics and corporate governance firm. [00:46:23] You are currently listening to the fireside chat with Heather tonight. [00:46:29] We are here every week on Wednesdays from 8 PM Eastern to 9 30 PM Eastern generally. [00:46:36] Um, and, uh, you know, I wanted to just take a moment to say, if you haven't clicked on, uh, the fireside chat, the little house up at the top so that you can join the club and get notices about when these happen. [00:46:50] Now's your time to do that. [00:46:52] Uh, we'll continue with some of the moderator's questions, and then we're going to open it up for everybody who is in the crowd to ask their own questions. [00:47:01] Um, first of all, Heather, thank you so much for joining us tonight. [00:47:05] You have an incredible story. [00:47:09] Um, one of the things that I wanted to ask you about is, um, as you think about, um, total wellbeing for your, um, uh, your, your reports and for you personally, what are the things that you're doing and are they different now than they were pre pandemic? [00:47:28] Hmm. [00:47:29] That's, that's a good question. [00:47:31] Um, so, uh, I think definitely. [00:47:35] Definitely, uh, pre pandemic, we were not under the same pressure cooker levels, um, that we are now. [00:47:45] And there's lots of reasons for that. [00:47:47] There's because, um, there's expanded attack surface in this new, not just bring your own device environment, but bring your own environment environment, right? [00:47:56] Like there is no perimeter anymore. [00:47:58] Um, but also because, uh, working from home, uh, takes a certain level of discipline and emotional quotient to be able to set boundaries for oneself than working from the office does. [00:48:14] Um, so something that I do different now is, uh, no meeting days and weeks. [00:48:22] This gets a little, uh, contentious depending on who you're talking to, but, but my team loves it. [00:48:28] We, we, we don't do meetings on Tuesdays and we don't do meetings from 10 to noon central on Thursdays. [00:48:35] Um, and that ensures everybody has time to get their actual work done because I don't want people, unless we're in some, you know, temporary sprint having to work nights and weekends, which is the norm for some places. [00:48:50] Um, and then we do a quarterly, um, and then we do a quarterly no meeting week to ensure that people are getting ample time to focus on their development or to focus on, um, strategic planning or to focus on progress, right? [00:49:06] They get to choose how they use that time in alignment with their manager. [00:49:09] So I think that helps a lot. [00:49:12] Um, the other thing that I do to try to take care of people is I really get, uh, nosy about, um, what is available to me resource wise from my employer. [00:49:26] And I find that a lot of people don't like, I am totally, I'm like the coupon clipper of, uh, you know, uh, corporate benefits. [00:49:36] Like, I want to know exactly what is available to me to help take care of my associates. [00:49:42] Right. [00:49:42] So, uh, like, for example, I just found out that at sale point, we offer this thing called sale away days and it's for, uh, employees that are having burnout. [00:49:54] They get sent to a Marriott, uh, in their hometown hometown or nearby, they get a gift certificate for a nice meal and a basket with like things for relaxation just to help them curve off burnout. [00:50:09] And so like, but a lot of people in the company don't necessarily know about it because, you know, there's information overloaded to every company right now. [00:50:17] So you have to kind of like be proactive and talking to your HR team, talking to your corporate culture team and like making sure that you understand, you know, okay, what's the process for issuing spot bonuses? [00:50:29] If I want to give them a bonus for like really doing some amazing work or, uh, what's, uh, what are the resources for when somebody is having a hard time? [00:50:38] Like at sale point we have a corporate chaplain, you know, and we have like, um, other health benefits, um, that can help with getting connected with therapists quickly. [00:50:48] So like get nosy about the benefits. [00:50:51] And then lastly, get nosy in people's lives. [00:50:53] Um, you know, uh, uh, I don't ever start getting nosy in somebody's life without like telling them like some stuff I've got going on. [00:51:04] Right. Like, um, my husband has bipolar and today I told some teammates, like this has been a hard week for us at the house. [00:51:14] You know what I mean? [00:51:15] And, um, I find that when I open up about those vulnerabilities and challenges, like other people around me will open up as where like I can more easily be nosy and like take care of them. [00:51:27] So I, cause I want, I want those details to be able to factor into like, what's their ability to perform under pressure right now. [00:51:35] Heather, who's the HR rep that I need to speak to for the sale? [00:51:38] Right. [00:51:40] Oh, was that only for, for sale point employees? [00:51:44] I want to call, call that person tomorrow. [00:51:48] Exactly. [00:51:48] She's amazing. [00:51:50] You know, I, I, I'm, I'm jealous. [00:51:53] I also have Enya's Orinoco flow, like on constant, like replay right now, sail away, sail away. [00:52:04] I love that you have like a couple of things that are really remarkable, um, that you got this concept of kind of deep work and that those focus days, I think is so helpful and purposeful. [00:52:17] And I'm totally impressed with the, like coupon clipping. [00:52:22] Like I want to put that into my bag of tricks, the coupon clippings of knowing what's available so that you can help people understand and navigate those resources. [00:52:32] I mean, that's invaluable. [00:52:33] So thank you for sharing that. [00:52:36] Yeah, for sure. [00:52:38] And Hussain, I think you're up next. [00:52:39] Good evening. [00:52:42] I'm the CISO here at Robert Wood Johnson healthcare system. [00:52:46] The conversations and opinions are mine. [00:52:48] I wasn't sure if Mr. Maldonado gave us the official disclaimer tonight as I was late. [00:52:55] Apologies for that. [00:52:58] So Heather, sale point is at a rapid growth at this moment. [00:53:03] And, um, I've been working with sale point for some years, so I kind of know, and you guys are venturing into the cloud and I have an on-prem product. [00:53:11] Do you get involved with the product strategy? [00:53:13] And if so, how do you balance that being an inward and an outward CISO for an organization? [00:53:20] Yeah, well, uh, first, I think it's an important exercise to think through like your, your return on management time, right? [00:53:34] What, what are going to, what efforts are going to return the highest, um, from your investment of your time, right? [00:53:43] And so for me, that's three main things. [00:53:47] Um, my role and my time is split, uh, essentially 30, 30, 30. [00:53:53] Um, the first 30% is client facing engagement. [00:53:57] Um, I extend myself as a, an executive, um, sponsor, uh, to customers or prospective customers to ensure that they have a practitioner who understands their seat. [00:54:13] And their pressures. [00:54:15] So that way, if you're having any challenges or want better alignment that they can talk to me. [00:54:23] Um, the second is obviously leading the corporate and product security at sale point. [00:54:31] But the third is also, um, uh, product roadmap engagement and advisory. [00:54:37] And so those are the three main ways that I spend my time. [00:54:41] Um, um, I get engaged, um, pretty seamlessly with product roadmap simply by nature of who I work with. [00:54:49] So Grady Summers, he, he was a CISO in his, uh, prior career journey. [00:54:56] So, um, he was CISO of GE and also has a Mandiant background. [00:55:01] Our chief technology officer, Asenka Jaya Surya. [00:55:04] He, um, has had CISO's report to him, um, in his past. [00:55:10] And so I am blessed to, um, report to somebody and work along somebody that understands my role and knows when to engage me. [00:55:22] In fact, there's times when our chief technology officer, um, suggests my engagement before it occurs to me. [00:55:29] So I find that incredibly unique. [00:55:34] Um, it's certainly not been my experience everywhere, but I think those are important things to look for when you're looking for the right role. [00:55:42] Um, it's, uh, what is this person that I'm reporting to or my peers that I'm going to be dependent on? [00:55:48] What is their experience with engaging or leading security? [00:55:52] Um, because it can make your life a whole lot easier, um, if they have that experience. [00:55:58] Um, so yeah, that's how I would answer that. [00:56:02] Thanks for those insights. [00:56:04] Over to you, David. [00:56:06] Hello, uh, David Katz. [00:56:08] Happy to be joining everybody today. [00:56:10] Uh, former regulator. [00:56:11] So disclaimer still holds that, you know, any opinion expressed is mine. [00:56:15] It doesn't represent that of the federal reserve, uh, as well as any advice given today doesn't represent legal advice. [00:56:23] Uh, so I'm currently senior partner running a digital assets practice, uh, for law and forensics. [00:56:28] But Heather, you know, thanks for joining us today. [00:56:30] Your, your story is amazing. [00:56:32] So I was thinking that, you know, you talked about how, you know, quickly this, you know, team gelled compared to some of your other experiences. [00:56:39] What other big differences have you noticed going from kind of the professional services, uh, to a pure technology company? [00:56:48] Hmm. [00:56:49] Yeah, it went from professional services to retail to technology. [00:56:53] So it's been quite, um, uh, quite a variance and experience. [00:56:59] Um, professional, when I was in professional services at E&Y, uh, the main sectors that I, uh, consulted were technology and financial. [00:57:12] Uh, so as you all know, they tend to be more leading the pack with security best practices. [00:57:22] Um, and so being in technology right now feels a lot more like home, right? [00:57:29] Uh, where, uh, like we put forward three, uh, really innovative roadmaps, um, this year to focus on cloud security, um, zero trust and, um, SSDLC. [00:57:48] And I, I think that that's, that's something that I've really enjoyed is that ability to think more about not just being, uh, a three on a one to five maturity scale across the board. [00:58:04] And that being the end goal, but like having some areas where we're really excited to be a five, you know, um, and really getting to innovate and think about, um, that's the exciting thing right now about product security, right? [00:58:17] Is that DevSecOps, SSDLC, however you want to find it, those best practices are being defined right now. [00:58:24] We're like living at the time where, uh, everybody's figuring out the best way to go about that. [00:58:32] And it's super exciting to be in technology, uh, and getting to, uh, trailblaze in that space. [00:58:41] So, uh, that, that, that's, that's, what's kind of stood out to me is it's been, been really fun being back in that sector. [00:58:53] Thanks so much for, for sharing, uh, Russell over to you. [00:58:56] Actually, I think, uh, I think we're going to open up for, for audience questions, right? [00:59:02] Um, cause the rest of you went already, I believe. [00:59:06] Yep. [00:59:07] If you do, but if you do have another question, feel free. [00:59:10] Uh, but just, uh, I do see a few new folks in the audience. [00:59:13] Uh, you got the little celebration of party hats going on. [00:59:16] So welcome to clubhouse. [00:59:17] Welcome to our fireside chat. [00:59:18] Uh, again, this, we do this every Wednesday between 8 PM Eastern time to 9 30 PM Eastern time. [00:59:24] So if you do have a question that you want to ask Heather, feel free to raise your hand and we will bring you up on stage and you can ask, uh, ask away. [00:59:31] Um, if there's no questions, I will pass it back over to any of the mods. [00:59:36] I want to continue the conversation asking Heather another question. [00:59:39] Well, I will take the opportunity. [00:59:49] I was going to say, don't everybody open up mic themselves. [00:59:53] I was going to say, so I, so I have a, I have a five-year-old daughter, right? [00:59:58] And so I'm just really curious. [01:00:01] Um, what does your daughter think of you? [01:00:05] Um, I still Octavia. [01:00:07] I have a 15 year old daughter and then two, what I call little manimals. [01:00:14] They're five and six, a little boys. [01:00:17] Um, and my, um, uh, at times I think my daughter feels pressure by my success. [01:00:28] I, when, um, I'm 35 and 10 years into my career and she's, she's seen me since I was, [01:00:37] 19 and she's watched me grow up. [01:00:41] Um, and she's watched that journey. [01:00:43] Um, and she knows that she's been the fire that fueled that journey. [01:00:50] Um, and I think, uh, she's very proud of me. [01:00:55] Uh, she's very grateful, uh, for the life I'm able to offer her now. [01:01:01] Um, but sometimes I think it's a little bit of pressure for her. [01:01:06] Um, so like my, I have to, this is something we all have to learn as managers too. [01:01:12] Like as you become higher up in leadership, people hang on your every word. [01:01:17] They hang on your tone, right? [01:01:19] I deal with a pain management battle and there's been times where I've had to learn to tell [01:01:25] people in a meeting, Hey guys, I'm having a bad pain day. [01:01:29] Um, so that way they didn't in, uh, internalize a tone that I have in that meeting. [01:01:36] And it's the same way with my daughter. [01:01:38] I have to, um, I have to make sure that she feels, uh, very much so accomplished. [01:01:46] Um, and that I'm proud of her for her own accomplishments. [01:01:51] Um, so I'm like extra cognizant of that. [01:01:53] I don't know if that fully answered your question, but. [01:01:56] No, it does. [01:01:57] And so I'm just, you know, always curious because I have 11 year old son and then I have [01:02:02] a five year old daughter and we're always talking about just my, uh, desire for them to be successful. [01:02:10] And so it's just, you know, and also, also trying to take the pressure off of them as well. [01:02:15] So I think it's something that we don't think about, or maybe we think about because we're [01:02:19] parents, but maybe sometimes in the industry when we're talking, that doesn't come across [01:02:23] that we're also parents. [01:02:25] Yep. [01:02:27] Absolutely. [01:02:27] Okay. [01:02:32] Okay. [01:02:33] We have, uh, we have somebody that just joined us. [01:02:35] Alpana, over to you. [01:02:37] If you're new to clubhouse, just put it on mic. [01:02:40] There you go. [01:02:40] You got it. [01:02:40] I think I'm trying to figure it out. [01:02:43] Hi everyone. [01:02:44] And hi Thomas. [01:02:45] Thank you so much for, um, including me. [01:02:48] I didn't actually know what I was doing, but I was just here to say hi to Heather. [01:02:53] Hey Alpana. [01:02:54] Alpana is my, um, she leads office of cybersecurity. [01:02:57] For me, which is governance, risk, strategic planning, uh, PMO metrics and training and awareness. [01:03:05] She's a superstar in this industry. [01:03:07] Um, so Alpana, thanks for the support. [01:03:09] I was just trying to raise my hand and I'm like, Oh, I just got in here. [01:03:15] So, so, so, so sorry for doing that, but I just wanted to come and listen to this fireside chat. [01:03:20] It is amazing. [01:03:22] Thanks Alpana. [01:03:23] Yeah. [01:03:23] Yeah. [01:03:24] No worries. [01:03:24] Alpana. [01:03:25] Thanks for popping up on stage and giving your, I'll call it a shout out. [01:03:29] And Heather didn't say this, but, uh, mods don't try to steal Alpana. [01:03:33] She is, she does sound like she's doing a lot. [01:03:36] Uh, very interesting. [01:03:37] She's amazing. [01:03:37] I'm not trying to fight Heather. [01:03:40] So I think we'll leave a fight. [01:03:42] No, she was, she was in the military. [01:03:44] That's what I'm saying. [01:03:45] I, I, my husband's military, not I. [01:03:48] I see it all the time. [01:03:49] Any woman that, you know, went to the military, did what they did, they give all respect for me. [01:03:55] Absolutely. [01:03:56] And, and I know Russell said this earlier, but I just want to repeat it. [01:03:59] Heather, thank you for your service. [01:04:01] Uh, I really appreciate it. [01:04:03] We do. [01:04:03] We really appreciate it. [01:04:05] Um, Mike, good to, uh, good to see you on stage. [01:04:08] Anything you want to ask Heather? [01:04:12] Yes. [01:04:13] Hi, Heather. [01:04:14] Uh, the question I wanted to ask you, it seems like throughout your career over and over your manager or, or a mentor, they, they saw something in you and, and opened opportunities for you. [01:04:25] So I guess my question is, if someone were to ask your mentors or your managers, what is the secret of Heather's success? [01:04:31] What, what would they say? [01:04:35] Oh, wow. [01:04:36] Um, that's, that's a lot harder. [01:04:40] Cause in my, in my career, like we talked about in, uh, you know, growing up in a small town, there was never like this calculation to be where I am, or even to think, to dream, to be where I am. [01:04:54] Uh, so like, uh, internalizing what got me here is a little bit more difficult, but, uh, I think that my, I think I'm an expert translator. [01:05:06] So I'm really, really good at listening to the technical engineer, uh, and translating to the business executive. [01:05:20] Uh, and so I think that that was really key to my success. [01:05:24] Um, being able to do that translation, um, helped set other people up for success and people appreciate that. [01:05:35] Right. [01:05:35] Uh, I think the other thing I, I would say is just, um, a focus on operational excellence. [01:05:46] Right. [01:05:47] So like, uh, really, I think in today's, um, working environment, there can be a pressure to move faster with a lesser quality. [01:05:58] But I think I always lean towards slowing down to put together a really, really thoughtful proposal or product or deliverable. [01:06:11] Um, and I think that that, that helped a lot along with kind of what we were talking about earlier and just raising my hand. [01:06:20] Once, once, once you feel comfortable that you understand the inputs, the process and the outputs of the team or program or domain that you're in, raise your hand to get more involved with an adjacent team that you get inputs from, or that you provide outputs to. [01:06:42] Because that slowly illuminates light on your map of understanding of the bigger machine that is cybersecurity and allows you, even if you go back to where you started from, to better target your deliverables and output and support, um, in the future. [01:07:05] Super insightful. [01:07:06] Thank you so much for that answer. [01:07:09] Can I ask you just a quick follow-up question? [01:07:10] Any advice on how to, how to become a good translator for, for the rest of us? [01:07:18] Um, I think that it's important to role play, right? [01:07:25] Um, and so like having a strong imagination really helps, but like sitting there and meditating for even five minutes on the background of the person you're supposed to talk to, right? [01:07:40] This person is, you know, um, the, um, the CEO. [01:07:49] They came up through a strategy and marketing background, you know, like they have no frame of reference on what these tools are or what they mean. [01:08:03] The questions that they're going to be asking are, what is the impact of me not doing what you say I'm going to need to do, right? [01:08:13] What is the current impact of where we're at? [01:08:17] And like being able to put that in terms that they understand through a little bit of role playing, like makes a big difference. [01:08:26] Love it. [01:08:28] Thank you so much. [01:08:29] Uh, love your story. [01:08:30] Love your insights. [01:08:31] Thank you so much for being here. [01:08:33] Thanks, Mike. [01:08:33] And I loved your story. [01:08:34] You were my first fireside chat podcast. [01:08:37] So you were great. [01:08:39] All right. [01:08:39] All right. [01:08:40] We'll have to connect on LinkedIn. [01:08:41] Thank you so much. [01:08:42] Yeah. [01:08:43] I love to see that. [01:08:45] Thanks, Mike. [01:08:46] Thanks for popping up on stage and asking your question. [01:08:49] And, uh, and obviously for joining us again this evening. [01:08:53] Uh, hopefully I get this right to Tulu or Tulu. [01:08:58] Anything you want to ask Tulu? [01:09:01] Yeah. [01:09:01] Anything you want to ask Heather? [01:09:02] Just unmute. [01:09:03] You got to just hit, uh, if you don't know, just there's a little microphone on the bottom right of your screen. [01:09:07] Just hit that. [01:09:08] Okay. [01:09:08] Yeah. [01:09:08] I'm unmuted now. [01:09:09] Hey. [01:09:10] Hey, Tulu. [01:09:11] Hi, Heather. [01:09:13] It's so nice to be here, Thomas. [01:09:15] Um, this is my first time and I'm actually joining because of Heather. [01:09:19] Yeah. [01:09:22] Nice to hear Alpana. [01:09:25] Hi, Octavia. [01:09:26] Hi, Binger. [01:09:27] Um, Olu. [01:09:28] Okay. [01:09:28] So my question to you, Heather, I know you talked about people that have always encouraged you, right? [01:09:35] And I think our relationship since we've been at EY has always been about that. [01:09:40] And I see your schedule becomes busier and busier every time. [01:09:45] Um, but you talked previously about how you have that 30, 30, 30. [01:09:49] I spent 30% of my time here, 30 here, 30 here. [01:09:52] So when you think of spending time with other people, um, to really encourage them, to really, um, invest in them, spending time on yourself to be better so that you can always be able to give something. [01:10:10] And also spending time on your daughter and your sons and also on your husband. [01:10:16] How do you divvy that up without feeling guilty about anything? [01:10:20] Yeah, that's a, that's a hard one. [01:10:22] Um, first, I think the most important career choice that we make, uh, especially as women is our spouse, our partner, right? [01:10:36] And so I'm very fortunate to have a partner who has supported me throughout, um, my career. [01:10:43] Um, he stays at home with the kids, um, and he, uh, is always there for me and helps provide that balance to where I know the kids are getting what they need, but also keeps me honest, uh, when I'm letting work-life balance slip, you know? [01:11:03] And so I really appreciate that about him from like a, uh, a tangible perspective with how I do that, uh, balancing of time in my organization. [01:11:13] You know, I meet with my direct reports weekly, um, and, uh, I, uh, consistently try to meet up with them one-on-one, uh, in person for non-work related stuff, at least quarterly, if not every other month. [01:11:29] Um, um, and, uh, their directs, uh, managers and program managers I meet with bi-weekly. [01:11:38] Managers and program managers, uh, I, and this is a little avant-garde, but I invite them to my staff meetings. [01:11:46] I may, I feel like their roles are just as important as my directs and they need all the information to succeed in their roles, especially program managers. [01:11:55] They're very matrix. Um, and I want them to feel like they have a direct channel to me. [01:12:00] I meet with them bi-weekly. Um, and then everybody in my organization, when there's a new onboard, um, I meet with them, uh, bi-weekly for the first two months. [01:12:12] And if they're an individual contributor, I then meet with them quarterly thereafter. [01:12:17] But I find that having that upfront, more intensive cadence ensures that they feel comfortable coming to me. [01:12:25] They need something. It like fully opens that channel of communication and allows me to get to know them on a personal level because the first two months of work isn't really about work. [01:12:34] You know, you're doing a lot of discovery, you know, you're doing a lot of listening. [01:12:38] And so that those meetings I really treasure because I'm getting this opportunity to really get to know them. Right. Um, and that helps me to, um, be better positioned, uh, to support them in our, uh, as they get more operationally intertwined. [01:12:57] Does that answer your question, Tolu? [01:12:59] Yes, it does. Thanks. [01:13:02] Yeah. Thanks, Tolu. [01:13:04] Thanks, Tolu. Thanks for popping up on stage and asking your question. [01:13:08] Jennifer, good to see you. [01:13:10] Jennifer, we've got to get you on one of these fireside chats. [01:13:12] I'm just going to call it out right now. [01:13:15] Oh, no. [01:13:15] I'll pin you offline. [01:13:16] But, Jennifer, anything you want to ask, Heather? [01:13:19] Hi, Tomas. Thanks so much. [01:13:21] Hi, Heather. This is an amazing story. [01:13:23] You're just, like, giving me shivers. [01:13:25] So, I'm just hearing a lot of, uh, just excellence from the beginning, excellence and stamina, um, through a lot. [01:13:32] And so, in addition to that and your technical excellence, I'm also hearing, which I find to be a really interesting, um, combination, is your, your EQ and your, just maturity. [01:13:41] The things that you're talking about, how you work with your teams, how you protect yourself and your teams, and the maturity that you're talking about in, um, speaking with your, um, you know, higher-ups, the CEOs, and kind of looking at it through their eyes and, and what makes sense to them. [01:13:55] I mean, we, you know, I'm, I'm much older, and we still have problems, you know, communicating with people that way, or I see it in my peers. [01:14:02] And also, just, um, the maturity you just talked about, about listening for your first several months, um, in a position to find out what's going on. [01:14:08] Where, where do you attribute that? [01:14:10] Because I, I find that less, something learned and more innate, but I don't, I'm, where is this all, where do you attribute it, all that, to the, the higher level? [01:14:20] Yeah, I, I would say from a maturity perspective, um, just by nature of, of some of the tumultuous circumstances when I was growing up, I, I had to mature really quickly. [01:14:35] I was an older child, you know, like I said, my mom was an addict. [01:14:39] And so looking out for my little siblings was, I'm, I'm really threaded into who I am very early. [01:14:48] And so, uh, I just feel like I carry that everywhere I go. [01:14:52] Um, like, I, I, uh, want to make sure all my little ducklings are behind me and that they're okay. [01:14:59] Um, and, uh, so some of it is that, um, some of it I think is, um, learning about different cultures. [01:15:11] Um, and, uh, I've done that in a, in a few ways. [01:15:15] Um, like I said, my, my undergraduate degrees in sociology and that teaches you to really, uh, assess the social, um, forces that are influencing an individual's decision. [01:15:30] And ultimately teaches you that there is no universal truth around best way to do anything. [01:15:39] And that teaches you to strip down your ego and to approach people with humility and respect. [01:15:45] Um, so that was my first introduction to that. [01:15:49] And then being in the military, it was like an incredibly dynamic, um, and diverse, uh, gathering of people that I would have never gathered with, you know, um, otherwise I would have never had this opportunity to work with such a diverse group of people. [01:16:09] Um, and, um, you know, then continued reading, right? [01:16:15] Like, um, I think I've reread twice now how to be an anti-racist by Ibram X. [01:16:21] Kendi, like just continuing to challenge any biases that you have and, um, really tapping into like the authenticity of what all makes us human. [01:16:32] Uh, I think we need to focus more on that people component, uh, because the technology and process follows after the people, right? [01:16:43] Uh, we got to make sure that people are taken care of. [01:16:46] That's really, really excellent and insightful. [01:16:49] Thanks. [01:16:50] That was very meaningful. [01:16:54] If I could, um, and yes, Heather, that was, that was incredible what you just said, um, about the human element. [01:17:02] Um, uh, but my question is, um, I hope it's not, uh, too controversial, but it's really about the whole idea of failing forward. [01:17:12] You've had so many successes and like all of us, there's no way you got without having some, at least one or two, uh, good epic failures. [01:17:22] What's your, uh, best failure and what, in, in terms of a learning moment that you've had in your career? [01:17:28] Yeah. [01:17:30] Yeah. [01:17:31] Um, goodness. [01:17:35] I feel like every single project that I was on, you know, in professional services, uh, had so, like, let's be honest. [01:17:44] When you're a consultant, you get, you get dropped in like a SWAT team to some problem that was so hard that they didn't want to solve it themselves. [01:17:53] So they're paying an extra premium for other people to do it. [01:17:57] And like, you learn really quick that when you don't know how to do something, you just Google it and you muddle through. [01:18:05] So that felt like trudging through a lot of, um, uncertainties, uh, at times. [01:18:12] But, um, I, I think that, um, while I was at the Home Depot, um, there was definitely, like I said, some of those challenges around, uh, resourcing. [01:18:30] And I remember, uh, I remember, you know, dealing with all of these pressures, uh, to get these many, I, at one point I had 60 projects and 150 people I was managing. [01:18:46] So it was a lot of pressure and, um, you know, budget constraints are a thing for everybody, no matter if you're a fortune 30 or not. [01:18:56] Um, and, uh, I, I think that at one point I let the pressure that cloud, um, the constraints of the business. [01:19:06] Right. [01:19:07] And, uh, ended up pushing back really heavily on my manager at the time, Steve Ward, about, you know, what, what am I going to tell these people if we don't get these resources, but we're committed to these projects. [01:19:21] Right. [01:19:21] Like, um, we're going to have to do the projects anyways. [01:19:25] Um, and I think, uh, uh, for me, it, it resulted in one, you know, him being disappointed in, in me not having. [01:19:36] Uh, empathy towards his situation at the time. [01:19:40] Right. [01:19:40] Cause he was advocating for us every single day. [01:19:43] Um, and a period of our relationship cooling off for about three weeks. [01:19:49] Right. [01:19:49] Where we're just like, okay, we need a break from each other. [01:19:53] Um, and then us coming back and, uh, talking about where the, where the expectation misalignment occurred, where the communication failure occurred. [01:20:06] Um, and, uh, I, I think I learned in that, that, uh, cooling off periods, uh, are not the best way to go about it. [01:20:17] Like you need to, you need to talk through it. [01:20:20] Right. [01:20:20] Because it was very easy once I talked to him to see the pressures that he was dealing with and to see where I went wrong in failing to communicate my constraints early enough. [01:20:35] Or, um, you know, not, uh, uh, uh, anticipating some of these decisions. [01:20:42] And, uh, it allowed us to, you know, get on the same page, but. [01:20:48] It can be very easy to set your empathy aside, um, in periods of extreme personal pressure. [01:20:54] Right. [01:20:55] And the important thing is to remember to go back to the table and have the conversation until you get aligned, until you see each other's perspective. [01:21:06] Oh, well, thank you, Sandra, on that. [01:21:09] Because, uh, I knew, and I knew you would have an amazing answer. [01:21:12] Thank you, uh, for that. [01:21:13] I appreciate that insight. [01:21:15] Um, it, uh, looks like that we had one more person join the stage. [01:21:18] So I'll, um, pass the mic over to David. [01:21:20] Thanks again, Heather. [01:21:21] Yeah. [01:21:22] Cool. [01:21:23] Hey, Heather. [01:21:23] How are you? [01:21:25] Hey, David. [01:21:26] I'm doing well. [01:21:27] Oh, good, good. [01:21:28] I mean, I absolutely love this interview with you. [01:21:31] I mean, your candor is so, um, impressive and empowering. [01:21:35] And I, I mean, I just absolutely love it. [01:21:38] I, I agree with you on so many things. [01:21:40] And most of the people who know me here know I'll automatically stand up for people and the human part of who we are in technology and that people process and technology, the tech, the process and technology. [01:21:52] Obviously follows the most important part to people. [01:21:55] And I agree with you on failure because I always say you never lose. [01:21:59] You just learn. [01:22:00] And, but I'm not going to talk about anything tonight. [01:22:02] I just wanted to ask how much of the training that you had in the military focused on mission, mission, mission, and mission accomplishment lends to your expertise. [01:22:14] I got here late, so maybe you talked about it already. [01:22:16] But if you don't mind, just please just speak about that one more time, please. [01:22:20] Yeah, I think where the military's focus on mission comes to play is that you, you learn that individual agendas and individual team objectives do not supersede the overarching mission. [01:22:44] Right. [01:22:44] And so at the end of the day, as cybersecurity leaders, our job is to support the business's mission. [01:22:56] Right. [01:22:57] Like we need to ensure that the business is able to be successful with their strategy and that we're succinctly calling out the highest risk cyber threat scenarios to the business. [01:23:14] And those could be simplistic. [01:23:19] It could be ransomware. [01:23:20] It could be software lifecycle compromise, like what we saw at SolarWinds. [01:23:24] Right. [01:23:24] And ensuring that you're communicating the cybersecurity risk in terms of how it could impact the business's ability to achieve their mission. [01:23:41] Right. [01:23:41] And I think that we can easily get caught up in squabbles between security and IT, right, security and DevOps. [01:23:51] But at the end of the day, we're all there to help the business achieve its mission. [01:23:59] And if everybody has that mindset, the collaboration is so much more seamless. [01:24:08] Right. [01:24:08] Because it's not subjective. [01:24:11] It's objective. [01:24:13] Right. [01:24:14] Nice. [01:24:15] Nice. [01:24:15] I'm happy to hear that you are a proponent of dropping as much of your ego as possible, walking in a door and walking in somebody else's shoes from a sociological perspective to just be self-aware, socially aware of all that's around you so that you can feel what the other people are feeling and be, you know, an empathetic leader. [01:24:35] I think that's great. [01:24:36] Thank you for answering my question. [01:24:38] And I really appreciate your answers. [01:24:40] I'm finished talking, moderators. [01:24:43] Thanks, David. [01:24:44] Thanks, David. [01:24:45] Thanks for popping up on stage and asking your question. [01:24:47] Heather, I don't know if we actually before I ask you a question, if there's anybody else that wants to sort of jump up on stage and ask Heather a question, feel free to raise your hand and we will bring you up on stage. [01:24:58] Heather, I don't know if I asked if you talked about this, but I'll ask you a question. [01:25:02] What are you reading? [01:25:04] Yeah. [01:25:05] So this is a message I actually am very passionate about getting across. [01:25:12] I think that we have a productivity addiction in a lot of ways. [01:25:21] Right. [01:25:21] And so I know for me as somebody with, you know, the the the background of being the oldest child, child of an addict, single mom, like feeling like I always have to be productive to take care of other people, whether that be at home, at work is can be a real addiction to me. [01:25:39] And I do enjoy reading for self-development. [01:25:44] But recently I I told myself, you know what, I really enjoy reading stories and it is OK if I want to soak in the bathtub, have a glass of wine and listen to a sci fi story instead of a management book on how to be better and more productive. [01:26:03] And so right now I am reading Dune because I love the movie. [01:26:11] But yeah, I read a lot of sci fi and fantasy. [01:26:15] And for me, it's an escape. [01:26:17] It provides me that that moment of recovery to enable my resilience. [01:26:24] Right. Because resilience isn't about around the clock endurance to be better, be more productive. [01:26:30] Right. So I'm going to give an avant garde answer there and say I'm reading Dune. [01:26:44] Did I lose you, Tomas? [01:26:46] No, no, no. [01:26:47] I was about to reel him back. [01:26:49] All right. [01:26:49] Slow, slow on clicking the mute button. [01:26:51] That's just funny. [01:26:53] Mads, any any anything else you want to ask that? [01:26:55] I do have a few more questions, but I don't want to get to them just yet. [01:27:00] Hi, Heather. [01:27:03] It's Lisa Beth again. [01:27:05] As a mom as well, what's the number one thing that you think being a working mother brings to your children? [01:27:14] Yeah, I think for me, it gives them the opportunity to dream about what they can achieve in their career. [01:27:30] Growing up, I had an amazing grandmother who raised me. [01:27:36] We had a very, very matriarchal family and she did everything. [01:27:45] It was strong, strong as nails. [01:27:48] Like she we grew up in a hundred year old house and she renovated every square inch of it. [01:27:53] She also helped run a business that they owned and she homeschooled us until sixth grade. [01:28:01] So don't get me wrong when I say that, you know, having a worker working mother gives children the ability to dream about the career. [01:28:12] Because having stay at home parents, I tell you every single day, I try to be half of what my grandmother was and still is today. [01:28:22] So, but I think that my daughter sees options in her life. [01:28:32] Like she is not prioritizing like fairytale ending aspirations of, you know, marriage and Prince Charming coming to sweep her up off her feet. [01:28:46] In many ways, I was the Prince Charming for my husband, you know, she's seen that. [01:28:53] And and I think she knows that she has this option for as much independence and freedom as she wants to have. [01:29:04] And I think that my sons see equitability in household management, which I think is really important. [01:29:16] I think not to beat up on the men, but I think for generations, it's been a crutch of men that, you know, they work so they do not need to do as much household stuff or even, you know, weaponizing ignorance of how to do those things. [01:29:34] Like, oh, I don't know how to do it in the first place. [01:29:36] And so I know for a fact that my sons see a dad that knows how to cook, a mom that helps him and can see that that's a shared task. [01:29:48] And I'm happy for that. [01:29:52] That's a phenomenal answer. [01:29:54] And, you know, I mean, it's something, you know, I grew up and my mom was a stay at home mom and she was like, you can have everything, all of this. [01:30:02] And I was like, hold up a second here. [01:30:04] I can do all of the work and on top of that, be all of the mom that you were. [01:30:09] And that just doesn't work out sometimes. [01:30:11] So it's a tough one to answer. [01:30:14] So I'd love your answer to it. [01:30:16] Thanks, Lisa. [01:30:18] Heather, I have one more question for you. [01:30:22] Earlier when you were talking about the fact that you graduated from high school early and kind of why you were trying to kind of, it felt like you were trying to escape from the mean girls in the high school. [01:30:34] Right. [01:30:35] I was talking to one of my mentees a couple of days ago and we talked about this, this kind of boom of women supporting women within the last three years. [01:30:46] I mean, I think we've always had some women that supported women, but I think in the last maybe two or three years, there's been just expansion of exposure to women supporting women. [01:30:58] And I also noticed that, you know, you have women that came, that used to work with you, that actually came to support you here. [01:31:06] What did you take from, you know, the girls being mean at school? [01:31:11] And how does that translate into how you kind of deal with and support women and women supporting you now in your adult life? [01:31:23] Yeah. [01:31:23] Well, I, there were two things I took away from my formative years, as one would call it. [01:31:29] The one was empathy, which we talked about. [01:31:31] The second was how important it is to be an includer. [01:31:35] I was homeschooled until sixth grade and was awkward AF. [01:31:41] Okay. [01:31:42] So I was just, I didn't know how to, I didn't know pop culture. [01:31:47] There's still entire periods of pop culture references that I don't get because I was so sheltered by my grandmother trying to make up for the fact that I, you know, I had these challenges with my, my mother. [01:32:00] And, and so I did, I entered public school in seventh grade, which is, as everybody knows, middle school is the worst. [01:32:12] It is so awkward. [01:32:14] And so I was already extra awkward entering an awkward period. [01:32:18] And it was very hard to develop formative bonds with girls that have known each other since elementary school, you know? [01:32:28] And, and I, I think that when I walk into the room, I'm always looking for the wallflower. [01:32:36] I'm looking for that person that just is quite obviously having their light dimmed by how they're being, how they perceive others inclusion of them. [01:32:48] Right. [01:32:49] And like, I, it's, I remember I went salsa dancing with a best friend of mine. [01:32:57] And the thing I love about her is that her and I both went to this girl that was just sitting there and we coaxed her out to dance, you know? [01:33:07] And like, it's just that those are the type of people I want in my life. [01:33:11] They're the people that are going to include and help bring out other people's light that sometimes, you know, society or the way other people have treated them has dimmed. [01:33:21] And it's like the saddest thing to me. [01:33:25] No, I love that. [01:33:27] I love it. [01:33:28] And it's so important because those are the people that bring so much light to the world. [01:33:32] And, you know, you never know what we're going through. [01:33:35] Awesome. [01:33:36] Tomas, back over to you. [01:33:37] Thanks, Octavia. [01:33:42] And look, it is, it is 9.27 p.m. Eastern time. [01:33:45] We are coming close to the, to the end of the event this evening. [01:33:49] Had, I do want to ask you, I'll ask you my, my typical last question. [01:33:53] And, and, you know, you've, you've gone through, and I don't want to call them challenges. [01:34:01] I'm going to call them opportunities. [01:34:02] Because I think every, every, every step of your, your journey has been an opportunity for you to continue to grow, continue to improve and continue to, you know, evolve, if you will. [01:34:12] If you have one piece of advice for the younger, the younger Heather, what would it be and why? [01:34:17] Yeah, my advice would be that charisma comes in all forms. [01:34:25] And it is so easy to look at the politician or the typical, you know, white male CEO with this stern, you know, decisive disposition and go, that's the type of charisma I need. [01:34:41] But charisma comes in vulnerability. [01:34:44] Charisma comes in embracing your awkwardness. [01:34:47] Charisma comes in storytelling. [01:34:49] Charisma comes in an infectious smile. [01:34:51] And you don't have to be this, you know, atypical character to have charisma and inspire people. [01:35:05] That's awesome. [01:35:06] I was going to, I was going to say, I usually look for the, the Latino CEO and I, and I, and I try to, no, I'm just playing. [01:35:12] But no, that's, that's, that's great advice. [01:35:15] Heather, look, on behalf of myself and the other moderators, you know, I want to make sure that one, we thank you for your time. [01:35:22] Thank you for spending the time with us, sharing everything that, that, that you have shared over the past hour and a half, being vulnerable and opening up to us to, you know, perfect strangers, to be quite honest. [01:35:34] Right. [01:35:34] And I know we've, we've created this community and it is a safe space for us to have these sort of candid conversations and really get to know each other and build, build upon not only our own networks, but also build upon ourselves. [01:35:47] Right. [01:35:47] And continue to learn and grow. [01:35:49] So, so I really appreciate that. [01:35:51] And I really appreciate you sort of opening up and talking to us. [01:35:55] Moderators, any, any final words for Heather? [01:35:58] Yeah. [01:35:58] I just like to congratulate you on your success and all the things you have in your life. [01:36:04] Great. [01:36:04] Thank you to be here. [01:36:06] Thank you, Hussain. [01:36:08] And Heather, I'd just like to let you know, in our little back channel, we are currently having a virtual arm wrestling over who wants to be your new best friend. [01:36:17] Oh my gosh. [01:36:18] Thank you. [01:36:19] I'm so honored and I view Bestie as a tier, not a role. [01:36:25] So more the merrier. [01:36:26] I just want to let everybody know that I, that I, that I, I, I, I chatted with Heather first a few months ago. [01:36:36] We go with them. [01:36:37] I thought you was, Tomas, I thought you was about to start singing, I shot the sheriff with that I, I, I. [01:36:43] Ooh, Octavia put it in the, oh. [01:36:46] All day. [01:36:48] All day. [01:36:48] I thought you was right. [01:36:50] Octavia, this is being recorded, Octavia, so no dad jokes for me today. [01:36:55] You may, may. [01:36:56] Anyway, Heather, it was an absolute pleasure. [01:37:00] I loved it. [01:37:02] Thank you, Lisa. [01:37:03] I'll just say, Heather, again, thanks for all the things that were said are so true. [01:37:07] And you've inspired me. [01:37:09] You've motivated me. [01:37:11] I took a lot of notes. [01:37:12] And the path that you've been on, the success that you've had, and the people you've helped, and the whole, almost a whole lifetime still of making great impact. [01:37:23] I just can't wait to see what's next for you. [01:37:27] This is so incredible. [01:37:28] So thank you. [01:37:29] Thanks, Russell. [01:37:30] And you guys don't know what your words of encouragement and support mean to me today. [01:37:35] Like I said earlier, it was a hard week for me this week. [01:37:39] We have those seasonalities of life. [01:37:41] And this was just the, you know, the pick-me-up I needed. [01:37:47] And it has been every Wednesday getting to join in. [01:37:50] And so, Tomas and moderators, thank you for providing this forum for us all. [01:37:57] Absolutely. [01:37:57] Thank you, Heather. [01:37:58] It was awesome having you. [01:37:59] Thank you for sharing your experiences and your journey. [01:38:02] True hero. [01:38:03] Thank you. [01:38:04] And I'll act so. [01:38:05] Oh, I'm sorry. [01:38:06] Act so. [01:38:07] No, I'm just going to say, you know, you talked about it being, you know, a part. [01:38:12] We just know, like, you just expanded to have new friends and new support systems. [01:38:17] So definitely, we are here for you. [01:38:20] And, you know, you say the tears. [01:38:22] I don't believe in putting titles on people. [01:38:25] So if you need anything or if you just need to talk to reach out, thank you for being here. [01:38:30] Thank you, Octavia. [01:38:31] That means the world to me. [01:38:33] And I am excited to stay connected. [01:38:34] Yeah, and I actually have to say something similar and just that, you know, thank you so much for coming into this space and sharing your story with us. [01:38:43] And I wanted to echo what Lisa was saying, you know, about our moderator back channel. [01:38:48] I was also receiving notes from those in the audience today also saying just how refreshing and wonderful this conversation was for them. [01:38:57] And, you know, just, you know, to your point, this, you know, this space and being able to hear someone's story and to feel like we're, you know, now connected to you as well. [01:39:08] And so looking forward to having you back in the room again. [01:39:11] And I just wanted to let you know that it's not just the mods. [01:39:13] Everyone's saying these things about you. [01:39:15] So you can go into the rest of your week feeling that. [01:39:19] I'm feeling pumped up, you guys. [01:39:20] I'm so grateful for this opportunity. [01:39:22] And if y'all are like me, you're excited about Book of Boba Fett coming out tonight. [01:39:29] And so hopefully we'll have that to look forward to next. [01:39:34] I can't wait to watch it. [01:39:35] And shout out to Mike Sheeran, who's in the audience, who made the connection between Heather and myself. [01:39:41] So thanks for that, Mike. [01:39:43] I really appreciate you sort of introducing us. [01:39:46] And Heather, it's been great getting to know you. [01:39:49] And I'm sure we'll have more conversations as we continue to grow our sort of business and personal relationship as we continue to network in this field of information security. [01:40:01] So look, everybody, next week, we mentioned this earlier, we have Tom Bryan, who's in the audience. [01:40:07] So make sure you come back. [01:40:09] Let's grill Tom with some really interesting questions. [01:40:12] But joking aside, let's get to know Tom, figure out what's making him tick. [01:40:16] He's a very interesting person. [01:40:17] I've been in a few of his rooms. [01:40:20] Very smart. [01:40:21] Very sort of scary smart at times. [01:40:25] But it will be a really great conversation next week. [01:40:29] So please, please, please come back. [01:40:30] Again, if you're not a member of our Fireside Chat, click the little greenhouse on the top left of your screen and you can join our Fireside Chat Club. [01:40:37] Heather, final words for you. [01:40:41] Final words. [01:40:42] Oh, my goodness. [01:40:43] Go into this week. [01:40:45] Be kind to yourself so you can be kind to others. [01:40:48] Well, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. [01:40:51] All right. [01:40:51] Have a good rest of your week. [01:40:53] Cheers. [01:40:53] We'll see you back here next week, 8 p.m. [01:40:55] Eastern time. [01:40:56] Bye, everybody. [01:40:57] Cheers. [01:40:57] Cheers, everyone. [01:40:58] Thank you. [01:40:59] Cheers. [01:41:00] Bye, friends. [01:41:01] Bye. [01:41:03] Bye. [01:41:05] Bye. [01:41:07] Bye.