Fireside Chat w/Zinet Kemal, Author & Cloud Security Eng

[00:00:00] Thank you. [00:00:30] Hello, hello. Hi, Katie. Hi, Lisa Beth. How are you? I am doing awesome. Great. I have to make sure it's you. I was just in the social engineering room and now I'm completely paranoid about everything and everyone. [00:00:59] So a little paranoia until like the first issue arises. It's an advanced state of awareness. [00:01:11] Exactly. It's so funny. It's just, you know, and as people in this space, I mean, you have to be able to exist in the space of having some sense of paranoia to be good in this job. [00:01:24] But it is a balance, certainly. So I just thought I'd share what I was coming from because a number of people are actually popping over from that room. [00:01:34] That's why it was also pertinent, making sure your voice matched your picture and verifying to everybody. [00:01:40] I have met you in person. You are indeed who you say you are. It is true. [00:01:43] I am real. [00:01:50] So as we wait for Zanette to join us, everyone, you know, can feel free to pop up and say hello as we're getting warmed up for the room. [00:02:00] I see some friends in the audience. So it's always good to see you, Bob and Nate. [00:02:07] You know, it's lovely to have so many friends joining us tonight. [00:02:12] Maybe they're paranoid about joining the stage. [00:02:23] Nobody's going to jump up on the stage. [00:02:29] There's the guest of honor. [00:02:32] It's good to see you tonight. [00:02:35] Good evening. Hope you can hear me fine. Or do I have an echo? I'm using a headset. [00:02:39] Is it fine? Can you hear me fine? [00:02:43] I can hear you. Yeah, no, I can hear you great. [00:02:45] You sound great to me. [00:02:48] Awesome. How are you, Katie and Lisa? [00:02:51] We're good. I've been looking forward to this conversation for quite some time. [00:02:54] So I'm really good. [00:02:59] Okay, that's good. Likewise. Me too. [00:03:03] Looks like Tomas joined us briefly as well. I don't know, Tomas, I know you were traveling today, [00:03:08] but making you a moderator real quick. Sound check. [00:03:14] Hey, hey, hey. What's going on, folks? [00:03:17] Hopefully you can hear me. Sorry for the background noise if you hear any. [00:03:20] But I am in the airport. [00:03:22] So I just wanted to join. I'll probably cut out in a little bit. [00:03:26] But thanks, Jeanette, for joining us. [00:03:28] And thanks, Katie and Elizabeth. Over to you. [00:03:33] Thank you, Tomas. I know you told me you'll be traveling, but it's good to see you. [00:03:37] Thank you. [00:03:38] Great. Well, I think we are at the top of the hour. [00:03:45] So we can start right now. [00:03:47] I know that there is a lot of travel going on, which is a-okay. [00:03:53] But welcome to the Fireside Chat, everyone. [00:03:56] We're glad to have you here. [00:03:59] Fireside Chat happens every Wednesday. [00:04:03] And what you need to know about the Fireside Chat is we have a couple of rules and we like to make sure everybody knows about them. [00:04:11] First and foremost, what we discuss are our personal views and do not represent the views of any past, present or future employers. [00:04:21] This is also rule number two, a no solicitation zone. [00:04:26] This is really for us to connect with each other. [00:04:29] If you have a crazy amazing product or something else that you want to sell, this isn't the venue for it. [00:04:34] And so please limit discussions to ones that are appropriate for the Fireside Chat. [00:04:42] And last but not least, this is a place to have fun. [00:04:45] It's a place to learn, educate, share, mentor, build new personal relationships. [00:04:49] The goal is really to have fun speaking about this profession and the topics that we are passionate about. [00:04:58] So with that in mind, is there anything else that I missed, Katie? [00:05:04] No, no, not at all. [00:05:06] No, only except that my personal views and my views are of that of my employer only if they're offensive to you. [00:05:13] But then if they're not offensive to you, then they're mine. [00:05:16] And if they're brilliant, then they're mine. [00:05:17] I just want to make sure that this is clear. [00:05:19] Love it. [00:05:20] Love it. [00:05:22] So let me start out. [00:05:26] My name is Lisa Beth Lentini-Walker, and I am a compliance ethics and corporate governance strategist. [00:05:34] I work as assistant general counsel at Marketa, which is a fintech company. [00:05:39] And I also run a consulting firm called Lumen Worldwide Endeavors. [00:05:43] Katie, let's have you introduce yourself. [00:05:48] Katie Hanahan- Okay, great. [00:05:49] Thank you. [00:05:49] I'm Katie Hanahan. [00:05:50] I'm the vice president of cybersecurity strategy for a boutique SI out of Chicago, where I also run their VCSO program. [00:05:57] So I am a CISO as well and a huge fan of Zanette and looking forward to the conversation. [00:06:04] But over to you, Tomas, if you're still available to make an intro. [00:06:08] Hey, everybody. [00:06:09] I'm Tomas Maldonado. [00:06:11] I'm the CISO at the NFL. [00:06:12] And happy that everybody made the time this evening to hear Zanette's story. [00:06:17] So why don't maybe if you, Lisa Beth and Katie, if you don't mind, maybe I can start and ask my first question. [00:06:25] And then I'll pass it over to you all. [00:06:28] Okay. [00:06:28] Sounds good. [00:06:29] I got the thumbs up. [00:06:30] So Zanette, you know, we're happy to have you join us. [00:06:35] We do know a little bit about you because you've attended some of our fireside chats in the past and we do know that you're an author. [00:06:41] So why don't you take an opportunity and give an introduction of yourself and why you're doing that. [00:06:46] Why don't you tell us about your origin story? [00:06:50] Yeah. [00:06:51] Thank you so much. [00:06:52] Like you said, you know, I'm a regular on this Wednesday night fireside chat. [00:06:57] But because my kids usually talk loud at the same time, all four of them at once, I couldn't come up to the stage. [00:07:05] But I've been a really regular since I think the start, I think in the midst of the pandemic early days. [00:07:12] Yeah. [00:07:13] Thank you for having me on. [00:07:15] But to do a quick overview of an introduction, my name is Zanette Kamal. [00:07:20] I usually start, I am a wife and a mom of four between the ages of 12 and almost three. [00:07:28] I'm also an immigrant from Ethiopia. [00:07:30] I moved here nine years ago from Ethiopia, eastern part of Africa to the snowy Minnesota. [00:07:37] I should emphasize that because we don't have a snow back home. [00:07:41] And I'm also a career changer from a legal field because I had a law degree and I was working in the legal field back home. [00:07:51] And when we got the opportunity to move here to the U.S., I decided why not pursue technology, which I don't have any background. [00:08:00] So I went back to school. [00:08:02] And when I moved here, it was like the snowy, you know, January of the month, I think back in early 2013. [00:08:11] And I was also seven months pregnant with my second one. [00:08:16] So and we knew no one in Minnesota because a lot of people ask me why Minnesota. [00:08:20] That's because the only place the only person we know from the U.S. was my husband's high school friend. [00:08:31] He reached out over Facebook. [00:08:33] You know, we got this opportunity. [00:08:35] We got a diversity visa. [00:08:36] We're coming to the U.S. and we don't know anybody. [00:08:39] So she said, come on, come on over. [00:08:42] I'll be happy to host you for four days because after four days, I'm going back to Ethiopia because it's been four. [00:08:49] It's been eight years since since she left her home. [00:08:52] So she was going back home. [00:08:54] So we came here. [00:08:55] But that's another story for another time. [00:08:58] But I came here, settled, figured out life and then went back to school because, like I said, I decided to switch to technology and start over. [00:09:09] And I went back to community college, did a two year degree and then transferred to a four year degree afterwards. [00:09:17] Never heard of cybersecurity until undergrad, senior year. [00:09:24] And then that's when I got I had to take an elective class there related to information security, which is always funny. [00:09:32] I bring this up like in computer science programs back then. [00:09:35] I guess there weren't any cybersecurity courses offered or there weren't any curriculums dedicated to cybersecurity, at least, you know, to my knowledge at that point. [00:09:47] So I completed my bachelor's degree in computer science again. [00:09:53] And, you know, had to relearn all the math and the computing concepts because those things are not taught in in law school. [00:10:02] And I also don't have the we don't have the access to technology and Internet and that type of stuff. [00:10:07] So it's it's it's much harder. [00:10:10] So, yeah, that's like the kind of the origin of how I got introduced. [00:10:14] But I'll come back to it later if we have more questions. [00:10:17] But I have a, you know, a little degree in law, associate's degree in computer programming and bachelor's degree in computer science. [00:10:25] And I'm currently pursuing my master's at Georgia Tech in cybersecurity because, OK, now after graduation, I learned about dedicated programs related to cybersecurity. [00:10:35] So let's go for it. And then I so I'm three courses away from completing that program. [00:10:41] Hopefully by the end of spring 2023, I'll be done. [00:10:47] I also I'm in a board at a nonprofit. [00:10:52] I think you had the founder as a guest before Talia Parker, Black Girls in Cyber. [00:10:59] What else? And I'm also a children's book author. [00:11:01] I forgot about that one. [00:11:02] Yeah. So a little bit of an introduction. [00:11:11] Awesome. Awesome. Thank you for that. [00:11:14] And over to you. [00:11:21] Go ahead, Katie. [00:11:23] OK, all I heard was over to you. [00:11:25] And I thought that's what I heard, too. [00:11:27] OK, I'm like, well, that's there's not many of us here on stage. [00:11:30] I knew it. [00:11:32] And so, you know, I appreciate, you know, your your backstory, you know, started following you. [00:11:41] I think most really, you know, you being in the room all the time, you also then, you know, taking advantage of the time that you had, which is apparently not that much. [00:11:53] I mean, anyone who has a lot of kids like I do as well knows that, you know, spare time is not really anything that's spare. [00:12:00] It's time that's made for something that is a passion of yours. [00:12:02] And I really thought it was interesting. [00:12:04] And some of the pieces when you have been able to jump on stage for a couple of minutes to share with with us, how you leaned into that that extra time when you were working from home and and learning from the clubhouse community and others about how to write a book. [00:12:21] I, you know, I'd love to dig more into your origin story as well, but I just am so inspired by that personally that I would be remiss if I didn't start there. [00:12:30] I just think it's just it's it's so, you know, not just inspirational, but just it's a lot of it's brave to put yourself out there like that and to go and to be able to be diligent enough to find the resources and find the right connection to be able to go do that and publish a book. [00:12:45] So can you tell us more about what that where that came from for you, how, you know, how you were able to accomplish that? [00:12:52] And do you have any more books on the horizon that we should be paying attention to? [00:12:58] All right. Yeah. Thank you, Katie. [00:13:00] I saw the book. I never wrote any book before. [00:13:05] Like I said, you know, OK, of course, besides school projects, that was pretty much so it was really the inspiration is coming from my kids and my kids. [00:13:14] These questions. Right. Over time. [00:13:17] My my oldest is 12, but since he was kindergarten, he used to bring this question about, you know, mom, where do I have like this black hair and why is it different from Henry? [00:13:27] You know, like this type of questions. And then my daughters, as they grow old, they wear the hijab, the head scarf. [00:13:32] And then they would bring in like, you know, my friend asked me about this. [00:13:36] And then I told her and then I would tell them, you know, the questions that they have, like that that that brought up the first book, which is Proud in Her Hijab. [00:13:44] So that was meant to create awareness for readers to appreciate cultural differences because it has some perspective of, you know, Ethiopian food mentioned in there. [00:13:54] And then also introducing about the people who might be looking different from you. [00:14:00] Because a lot of the stereotypes and the assumptions come from the media or not knowing, honestly, especially with kids. [00:14:08] So I thought, oh, this might serve as, you know, creating awareness of what hijab is and what we're wearing it. [00:14:14] As part of, you know, a religion, a lot of people would say that it's a cultural thing, but it's really about getting used to, for younger kids, how to, you know, wear the headscarf. [00:14:26] But the other aspect of it is, you know, empowering girls who choose to wear the hijab to be proud of themselves. [00:14:33] And I decided, you know, I'm going to teach myself how to self-publish and then publish the book. [00:14:38] I'm not going to, I barely leave my house. [00:14:40] I mean, I've been working from home for quite some time and I enjoy being at home more. [00:14:45] So I said, you know, I'm not going to knock doors for traditional publishing. [00:14:50] So I'm just going to teach myself. [00:14:51] So that was the reason why I hopped onto this app. [00:14:55] Just, I think at that time when I joined, it was on invite only. [00:14:58] So I had a friend from grad school. [00:15:00] He invited me and I joined and I started listening to rooms where authors were sharing. [00:15:05] I don't see those rooms that much nowadays. [00:15:07] I don't know why. [00:15:08] It's because, you know, people were back to almost normal stuff. [00:15:12] So there were more rooms sharing that type of thing. [00:15:16] So I used to teach myself when I was, you know, cooking in the kitchen or after work or while braiding my girls' hair. [00:15:22] I would just listen in and just learn the process. [00:15:24] So I joined some challenge and that came across also through Clubhouse. [00:15:30] I, you know, do you want to write your book in five days? [00:15:33] And like, it seems so daunting. [00:15:34] I thought I have grad school and I have work with the kids. [00:15:36] I don't know how to do that, but we're doing it. [00:15:38] Because if I have something in my mind, if I don't do something about it that same day, like it really itch me and it really bothers me. [00:15:45] I'd rather get do the thing that needed to be done and get tired while doing it than holding in my mind and just making my brain tired. [00:15:54] That's just me. [00:15:54] It's crazy sometimes, but it helps me get things done. [00:15:58] So I said, you know, I'm going to do that. [00:16:00] And then I did the challenge. [00:16:01] And that's how the first book came about. [00:16:03] And I launched it on a day. [00:16:05] And I think a lot of the I didn't have any marketing strategy. [00:16:08] I didn't even know that you have to market a book after you write it. [00:16:11] I just meant to get the message out. [00:16:12] And it was just a great story for ages 6 to 14. [00:16:17] And people were purchasing it through our social media and stuff. [00:16:21] That's the only outlet we have between my husband and myself. [00:16:24] And a lot of people purchased it that day and it became bestseller, I guess. [00:16:28] And then the second book came about, again, you know, the kids. [00:16:33] You never run out of inspiration when you have four kids. [00:16:36] Again, in the midst of the pandemic, they were playing a lot of online games. [00:16:40] They're gamers, the boys and the girls. [00:16:42] And they got hacked, I think, more than two occasions, two of my kids. [00:16:49] And it was first my son and then the other time it was my daughter. [00:16:52] So, you know, just tell them, you know, like being working in cybersecurity, I mean, you would have some things that you know that we would advise for adults. [00:17:02] You know, like, but I would tell them that. [00:17:04] But it just strike me that we're quick to give them the devices and the tablets. [00:17:10] But we don't really teach them about how to be safe online. [00:17:12] Like, we try to give them advice on how to be safe, not to talk to strangers. [00:17:17] And when you cross the street, look left and right. [00:17:19] But we don't think that those risks are still out there in the digital world. [00:17:25] And I think that, at least as a parent, that's what strikes me. [00:17:29] Like, if this is happening here, I think it must be happening somewhere else. [00:17:32] And I, in the midst of the pandemic, I also started to see, like, a lot of the Facebook mom groups. [00:17:38] I would be seeing, you know, kids getting hacked and saying that, Mom, please replace my, you know, avatar because I lost everything. [00:17:45] And they were showing pictures of their kids crying and, you know, like, what's going on? [00:17:49] And then that is what brought up Oh No, Hacked Again. [00:17:54] That is the title of the second book which got launched this year. [00:17:58] That is why we're in the same age group and all of the characters in the book are my kids, including their names. [00:18:05] Because I also believe that I think having a representation of their names and characters that look like them being represented in the literatures that they read is also important. [00:18:16] So that's what brought up the second book. [00:18:20] And the main two messages, I guess, for that book is one teaching kids the importance of online safety, password security. [00:18:28] How do we part in some important messages about enabling multifactor authentication, even if in the games that we usually tend to assume that kids are kids, they don't know. [00:18:40] It's too early to teach them about security. But I don't think so, because once you connect them to the Internet, they're vulnerable. [00:18:47] I think we should start at, you know, the earlier the better. [00:18:52] I mean, they start playing this game since they were five, no matter how much, you know, screen limits we can put in. [00:18:58] I think what would be more serving them well would be to empower them with the knowledge they need so that, you know, when we're not watching over them, they will be, you know, aware how to protect themselves, not to, for, for, you know, fishing links. [00:19:12] Those are the things that are mentioned in the book. I can recall, I haven't done author visit recently, but also limiting screen time. [00:19:21] If you tell a kid to, you know, play only for two hours, they will never listen to you, especially in the pandemic. [00:19:27] They were playing a lot more because that was their own, their only social network avenue, because they weren't going anywhere. [00:19:34] And the book was written at that point, at that time. And I think it's easier to communicate that to something that they can relate to. [00:19:44] Whenever I go for author visits to schools, if I mentioned like who, who plays online games, everybody else raises their hand and they listen. [00:19:52] And the, the game that is mentioned in the book is fictitious. It's called Zocanda, but they immediately, once they start hearing, they know which game I'm talking about so they can relate to it. [00:20:03] So those are the inspirations and the two, the messages for the two books. Hope I answered that question. [00:20:12] Well, absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, just in that empowerment, you know, being able to empower them to make the, the right decisions and also the empowerment of being able to see themselves represented in, in children's books. [00:20:26] And it's interesting too, because you just helped me a lot. You just helped me prep. I have to be the mystery teacher for a 20 minute lesson on Friday for my fourth grader. [00:20:37] And I'm bringing your book with me as, as well. I'm doing a little cybersecurity lesson. [00:20:42] I wanted to also just thank you for, for, you know, creating a book that I can bring into a school. And so it makes me feel a little less nervous. [00:20:50] I don't get nervous about this Wednesday night conversation that we have or rooms where we have 700 people. I am terrified to go speak to a room full of 18 fourth graders. That includes my son. [00:21:02] So well done for you to be able to go in and do that in schools. Those kids scare me. [00:21:09] They are scary because they ask really hard questions. They ask really hard questions. And, you know, usually it's, it's been great so far. You know, I'm not a public speaker. I, [00:21:20] I try to avoid it unless I get asked multiple times, but, you know, with author visits, usually I kind of know their language because, you know, I have different group ages myself. [00:21:31] So, you know, I run it usually by the kids. I usually ask them, even when I draft the two books, I usually like, my son is very honest. [00:21:41] At the same time. He, I mean, he'll tell you how he feels, but he's very, he looked at it and he said, of course, this would be a book that I, you know, I would read it every night. [00:21:51] He never read it afterwards. He said that it's too much. Like I've read it too many times, like for other kids who didn't read it, but it helps me understand and talk to them. [00:22:00] But they, the only thing is like, they frequently stop you to tell you stories of how it happened to them or, you know, just asking questions multiple times, but it can be terrifying sometimes you write. [00:22:12] Well, it can. And so that's why I'm very thankful that I at least have your book to bring in to help guide the conversation. [00:22:19] So thank you for that. And thank you for that backstory. And what a great clubhouse collaboration story as well. I think that's, and that's where I met you and, you know, and I'm so thankful for it. [00:22:28] So with that, I will pass the mic over to Lisa Beth Lentini Walker, another author on the stage to carry on the conversation, Lisa Beth. [00:22:36] Lisa Beth. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. [00:22:40] You know, I am a fan. I am so excited to see that you're going to be joining us tonight. [00:22:46] So I guess my question for you is, you know, I have four children too. [00:22:52] And one of the things that I'm always concerned about is what can we be doing and teaching our children, as well as teaching the workplace in terms of how [00:23:06] how to be better stewards of the human beings that we are responsible for, whether it's our communities or the organizations we work with. [00:23:16] I would love to hear your take on it. I love that you're educating about security, but what else can we be doing? [00:23:27] Yeah. I mean, going back to the basics, I would say, because I think a lot of the things that we neglect as a simple as, you know, enabling multi-factor authentication when it comes to user education, like we get a lot of information, especially in October where it's cybersecurity awareness month. [00:23:47] But we tend to neglect those basic things. I think if we get, you know, start implementing those and rotating your password and not reusing password among our applications, which I'm guilty of. [00:24:01] And, you know, and then, you know, and then not being able to use password managers, those some of the things that we should be implementing and I think would have prevented a lot of the major things that we're facing. [00:24:16] And with kids especially, I mean, the community, even like parents, I recently I was preparing a talk for some for a November and I was looking at only 30% of parents are aware about online safety or talk to the kids. [00:24:32] I even think that that number is good. Still 30% is a lot. But we tend to think that our data isn't that valuable for the bad hackers. [00:24:44] We tend to neglect the basics. I think going back to the basics of security and cyber hygiene could help us with a lot of the things that could be preventable in terms of, you know, educating the users. [00:24:57] Because it, it kind of, I don't really like the part where people say that like humans are the weakest links, but we can also make them or empower them to or educate them to the point that they become the first line of defense for our data, be it corporate businesses, individuals, [00:25:13] because these things are not about, you know, only the career, especially with the next generation. [00:25:18] It's about how do we instill that security mindset to, so that they can implement it to their own personal life because everything is going online. [00:25:27] Everything we're, we're, we're, we're conducting our educations online, the shopping and everything. [00:25:32] I'm sure the numbers must show it like post COVID and pre COVID. And so it's a, it's, it's a lot of implementing user education in, not in a boring way. [00:25:48] I know a lot of people complain about corporate use of user education, not being boring or something that to check the box. [00:25:56] But I think if we can make those things, those areas in cybersecurity more interesting, I think we could be preventing a lot more things that would prevent major even hacks in our personal life as well as to businesses as well. [00:26:13] That's terrific. Thank you so much for sharing those insights. [00:26:18] And I think we all have an opportunity to make a difference in the communities that we are part of, whether it's our businesses or the communities where we bring our families, et cetera. [00:26:29] So thanks for that, Zanette and Neil, I'm going to turn it over to you. [00:26:36] Thanks, Lisa. [00:26:37] Zanette definitely enjoyed hearing your origin story. [00:26:41] Wanted to go back and touch upon, you know, some of your experiences over a short period of time, had some great exposure to a vast variety of roles, experiences, board level opportunities. [00:26:54] Can you touch upon, you know, where that drive comes from and also how that shaped your viewpoint of how you engage, whether it's in a board role or otherwise in a leadership capacity with the different organizations you serve? [00:27:09] Yeah, thanks, Anil. [00:27:12] I like I said, you know, I came across security, you know, the very end, tell of my undergrad doing computer science, because at that point I didn't even know where I was going because we were taking a lot of programming classes and math classes and a lot of things. [00:27:30] But I wasn't still seeing where I would be fitting in the workforce, especially coming from a different continent, because at that point, by the time I graduated, I had my third child and, you know, it was only school and school and home. [00:27:46] Right. And I would take my classes, most of them either online or it's either a night time when my husband comes home for me to leave. Right. [00:27:54] And then it was at that time, like that exposure that I got getting participated in the cyber defense competition representing the university. [00:28:02] Those are the things that gave me exposure. And you mentioned that I was able to progress my career within this short period of time, because I have not been long within the industry relatively newer because I was four to five years. [00:28:18] Because at the end of 2017 that I was exposed to that cyber defense competition, just knowing that pursuing a number of certifications for graduating and I think having the internship experience, the certifications and having had that passion because you asked that, where is that coming from? [00:28:40] I think once I was a career. I think once I knew my passion is to to be in the cybersecurity space, I think I never stopped. [00:28:48] It was just a continuous learner. How you know how the industry is. You have to be continuously learning. [00:28:53] And then having those combined things all together, I think, must have accelerated in in making those career progressions, starting from internship to my first role at the local government. [00:29:08] And then I was like, you know, at Hennepin County, that's where I started as an IT auditor and then transitioned to the state government as an information security engineer. [00:29:15] And then finally got pursued by Best Buy. I should say that because I wasn't looking for a role, but through LinkedIn, that's how they got me. [00:29:23] I think you're ready for cloud security role. And that's how I made this transition to my current role. [00:29:29] But I mean, the thing that motivates me is that I like being in cybersecurity. I think I feel like it's an impactful work. [00:29:37] You're protecting citizens data. You know, when I was working at the state or protecting reputation and a corporate reputation in terms of it's a lot of it is attached to the business's reputation. [00:29:52] I mean, you're protecting that. And then the work that I do in educating young kids is the kids are the future. [00:30:00] We know that. So it's if you're educating one kid, I mean, that's a that's a huge impact even. [00:30:07] So I like the fact that, you know, the field is always evolving. I tend to get bored really quickly. [00:30:16] So I like the fact that learning new technology and just being in constant learning, I think that that keeps me motivated. [00:30:24] And I think I feel like I also have a good connection on LinkedIn that I started, you know, in the midst of the pandemic again because I wasn't going anywhere. [00:30:35] So why not LinkedIn? Right. So I built up like a good connection that really supports me and that I learned from a lot. [00:30:43] So I go there for self reasons, too, because I want to get motivated and learn what's going on in the industry or the podcast or the people that I look up to. [00:30:53] That's where I found my mentor. So I think it's a lot of factors into motivating, but it depends. Right. [00:31:02] There is the burnout aspect to it. But then balancing those things, I think, and having like a passion while you're doing it, like everything that I'm doing. [00:31:12] I always say, like, why do I get myself in trouble? Why am I doing a grad school after just finishing school? [00:31:18] Like I always say that, you know, it's for my kids, especially my girls, that they can they want to do this. [00:31:26] At least they have their mom to see as a role model. So I want to be a good mother to my kids and being a good role model. [00:31:33] I guess always motivates me. That answer your question. And yeah, thank you. [00:31:41] It does. It does. Thanks for sharing that. [00:31:43] And I think, you know, also, you know, you're highly represented that case in point. [00:31:47] There is no defined path, whether it's tech or cyber or anything between, you know, you can drive and create your own path. [00:31:55] So what you bring to the table, those professional personal experiences is going to help, you know, cultivate what you become in how you grow in that space. [00:32:04] So thanks for sharing that. On to you, Katie. [00:32:07] Thank you. Sorry, I was in the middle of posting this on LinkedIn as well. [00:32:16] But now I'm back. Can you hear me? OK. [00:32:21] You sound great. Great. OK. Yeah, I just didn't want anyone else to miss out on another minute of this conversation. [00:32:27] What I love, though, is that replays are on. So I'm just doing a quick reset for the room. [00:32:32] You're listening to the Fireside Chat with Sunette Kamal, who's the author of a children's book, which I posted here at the top of the page here, [00:32:43] so that you'll have a chance to see where to get that for your kids or your grandkids or your nieces and nephews or friends in the neighborhood. [00:32:52] But we're here every single Wednesday. We talk to all kinds of people in our space, whether they are authors like like Sunette or, you know, other global CISOs, [00:33:04] practitioners and social engineers and people doing all kinds of work in the in the government as well. [00:33:10] So always an interesting conversation, always different. Everyone's story is different. [00:33:16] So please follow us if you follow the Fireside Chat, if you just click on the little green box, you can you know, you can know when these are going to happen, [00:33:25] who we're going to have and and also be able to listen to those replays. [00:33:29] Before I go into another question, though, I know, Tomas, you're traveling. [00:33:34] Did you have another question before you had to drop off of the conversation? [00:33:40] OK, it seems like he's been listening mode at this point, so I'm just going to go ahead and jump in if that's OK. [00:33:49] I would love to go back to another thing that is very inspiring to me about you. [00:33:54] And you said something that now it makes a little bit more sense. You're like, listen, I get a little bored. [00:33:59] You're willing to just say I'd rather get tired doing something than get it off my plate. [00:34:05] I wish I was a little more like that because I think sometimes I'm more likely to think about it rather than, you know, get tired doing it. [00:34:14] I just I find it really interesting to just that that you also have a legal background and then, you know, in coming to Minnesota and then, you know, [00:34:24] essentially starting over really more pivoting and just a different career space with, you know, going into the data, data science, computer science, [00:34:33] and then now getting your master's in cybersecurity. I'm kind of curious about are you do you feel like that that law piece is still something that you're thinking about? [00:34:43] The reason that's on my mind and we just saw today, you know, there's now, you know, legal, big legal ramifications for a CISO at a large company that, you know, [00:34:53] was in every single newspaper today or publication online. [00:34:56] So as you look at cybersecurity, as you're nearing the end of your master's degree in cybersecurity and with a law background, [00:35:03] what are your thoughts around the way things are trending from a legal perspective or the decisions you might make as a cybersecurity leader? [00:35:13] What are your thoughts around the world in the next few years? [00:35:15] Yeah, I thank you, Katie. I mean, I studied law back home and I worked a little bit on a government investment agency for two years before I moved here. [00:35:29] So a lot of the even though, you know, we learn international law and human rights law, we basically a lot of it is Ethiopian family law, criminal law, civil law. [00:35:39] But a lot of the, I guess the transferable skills were find them helpful. [00:35:45] And I wasn't, I wasn't even mentioning them because I thought it's really different field because, because the lack of the math and the computing things that we learned, because like I said, I didn't do a computer, a cybersecurity program here. [00:36:03] So it was, I find it very distinct and different. But now, when I was doing my undergrad, I mean, my grad school with Georgia Tech, it's a policy track. [00:36:16] So we're learning a lot of the policy and privacy courses as well. And it has different tracks to it, to the program. It has information security track, which I got accepted first when I applied. [00:36:30] That's the only grad school that I applied and I got accepted. And, but I made a switch to policy track because, okay, I'm seeing a lot of the concepts that I'm learning is at least, you know, the quote unquote technical stuff through certifications, because I pursued security plus network plus CYSA, CISA, CCSK related to, you know, cloud, a lot of the acronyms, I apologize. [00:36:54] But if you understand some of the certifications or science, when I pursued to cloud, I have those, but I am not familiar with the policy aspect of it. [00:37:05] That's why like after I got accepted to the program, two or two courses into the program, I made a switch. But the good thing is, the program is very interdisciplinary, you are supposed to take courses from another track from energy track, as part of the master's program. [00:37:21] So that has helped me into getting that getting exposed to that policy side of things, privacy. [00:37:28] A lot of it is with this academic, you know, programs, a lot of it is like, you don't get to choose some of the programs. So we learned about the historical, like internet history, all of those things too. [00:37:40] I mean, those are those comes along with this one, but generally the program is really good. So I got exposed to that. So but I would say when it comes to the skills, I wasn't even mentioning that I have a low degree because I thought it's two different things. [00:37:55] And because we also assume that a lot of things that we're having back home aren't really valuable here. It might be a societal thing that you know, people assume that you know, things that are outside of the US aren't like you have to start over, unless it's really closer to what you're doing back home. [00:38:14] So I started recently until 2018. I wasn't even mentioning that I have a low degree. And when people start to hear it, I remember it was my first supervisor at the county. He heard you have a low degree that's like impressive, you know, you should mention that like even on your resume when you apply because I transitioned from being an intern to a full time job interviewing for that IT auditor role. [00:38:37] That was that was that was my first role into cybersecurity closest role. That's how I was able to pivot from an IT internship to an IT audit internship, then ultimately to get a full time job as an IT auditor. [00:38:53] So doing a lot of I learned about the NIST cyber security framework, the CIA is on all of those things while we were auditing, you know, how controls are effective within the organization, and doing the reports and findings and so that's that that was the my, my experience with that, but I would say that a lot of it is the communication skills, the essential skills that we're mentioning or the soft skills that we say that are important. [00:39:22] I think I think I've pulled those from my prior education because we tend to read a lot and then we also write a lot. I remember we write like 10 pages for midterm and finals back home. So yeah, I think I would say a lot of it is mostly, you know, transferable skills used in this field, but I've also seen a lot more people who are playing in that intersection of entertaining the legal aspect of it. [00:39:52] As well as cyber security, because cyber security is so broad and so many things. So a lot of people, a lot more people ask me also like, do you intend to combine those two or something? I'm not going back to school again. That's it. That's it. [00:40:07] But yeah, hopefully I answered that question. [00:40:10] Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, yeah, the background for all of us on the stage is very diverse. And so it's always interesting to hear more about how, you know, that's not, you know, not only influenced where you are able to get your start in the industry, but then also how you're, you know, framing your decisions as you as you go forward. So yeah, thank you so much for, for answering that question. And what a better [00:40:12] transition than the transfer to hand the mic over to another attorney on the stage. [00:40:17] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, the background for all of us on the stage is very diverse. And so it's always interesting to hear more about how, you know, that's not, you know, not only influenced where you are able to get your start in the industry, but then also how you're, you know, framing your decisions as you as you go forward. So yeah, thank you so much for, for answering that question. And what a better transition than the transfer to hand the mic over to another attorney on the stage. [00:40:41] Lisa Beth, over to you. [00:40:43] Lisa Beth, over to you. [00:40:46] It's so good to be able to talk about this. And I would welcome anybody who has questions. We're about to open it up to people. So if you can start raising your hands, that would be great. We'll start inviting you up to the stage. [00:41:01] But one of the things that I wanted to chat with you about is, I know, like you are ex with all the things you have going on in your life. [00:41:13] What do you do to keep yourself aware of, you know, different trends? What are you reading? What are you listening to? What's important for you in terms of your personal, you know, career trajectory and also as a human being? [00:41:31] Yeah, good question. Lisa, I am big on podcasts. I like to listen to things when I do something. My husband is even telling me like, you're getting addicted, like to, you won't do anything unless you're listening something. [00:41:47] If I'm cooking something or like I said, if I'm braiding my girl's hair, I'll be listening to podcasts that are podcasts that I follow on LinkedIn as well as on Spotify. [00:41:58] That helps me a lot in learning because I also notice that my attention span is getting a lot more shorter than it used to be. [00:42:08] So I get really bored when I'm watching like YouTube videos, right? [00:42:12] And then reading also, you know, because usually a lot of the, like, I wouldn't get because I get cold multiple times by my kids. [00:42:20] So it's hard to have like a longer span of doing things constantly. [00:42:25] But I learn better from conversations like this kind of conversations where people are sharing their stuff or talking about some concept through conversation. [00:42:35] So I like podcasts. [00:42:38] I read things. [00:42:40] I think I'm better at reading than watching a video for some reason. [00:42:43] Like if it's longer than five minutes, I get so like I'm done. [00:42:47] I mean, I get it's so hard. [00:42:49] I mean, I don't know why. [00:42:50] But I think everyone is reading, learning what is different, right? [00:42:55] Some like to do videos. [00:42:57] Some like just listening. [00:42:59] Audiobooks don't like reading. [00:43:00] So I think you have to have that. [00:43:03] What is the medium for you that works for you? [00:43:06] I try to do that. [00:43:07] So I listen to, I try to keep up. [00:43:11] Usually LinkedIn has been very helpful for me in terms of connecting with people. [00:43:16] If I'm not posting, I'm still engaging because I find it very inspiring and motivating to see the things that are getting posted or helps me follow along what's trending within the industry. [00:43:31] I don't really have time to read. [00:43:34] I have a bunch of books that I bought, but it's always like all the way half. [00:43:38] And then I'm not done and I start another one and they're just sitting on the shelf. [00:43:44] Hopefully that will be corrected once I finish my school because it's always hard when you're having homework and deadlines every week. [00:43:52] It's hard to find time to read. [00:43:53] So I always say like, I'm going to finish you when I am done with my school, hopefully by the end of next year's spring. [00:44:00] So other than school stuff and homework, I don't really recommend and enjoy like this fully fledged readings that are, you know, for academic purposes. [00:44:15] For example, for grad school, it's a lot of readings, right? [00:44:18] So it's either I listen to the lectures quickly and then respond back to the discussions or just the learnings from people's discussions, like comments. [00:44:28] Those are better for me. [00:44:30] So, yeah, those are my main things. [00:44:33] It's sad that I don't have other things that I read on. [00:44:36] I started a book called The Obstacle is the Challenge recently. [00:44:41] Hopefully, at least I try to finish that one. [00:44:44] But other than that, not much other than school stuff because it's so many. [00:44:50] You know, when you're in school, they think that you don't have other life other than school. [00:44:54] So it's kind of hard. [00:44:56] But, yeah, thank you. [00:44:58] Yeah, I totally agree. [00:45:00] Sometimes you just try to put things in, cram things in, in the little quiet moments in between. [00:45:06] I will pass it over to Anil if you have any additional questions. [00:45:10] And then I see that Jennifer joined the stage. [00:45:12] So, Anil, why don't we go over to you? [00:45:17] Thanks, Lisa. [00:45:17] I'll hold my question for a moment. [00:45:19] Let's hand it over to Jennifer. [00:45:23] Yahoo! [00:45:24] Hi, Zanette. [00:45:25] Great to see you. [00:45:26] And now that I know you're a fellow attorney, you're even higher up in my eyes. [00:45:32] And I'm with you on the podcast. [00:45:33] I think I listen to them like 16 hours a day while I'm doing just about everything. [00:45:36] And I recently heard you on Mike Jones's Haunted Hacker. [00:45:39] And he is another person that's passionate about kids and teaching kids. [00:45:44] And I know he just did that. [00:45:46] I think it's a video for YouTube or Netflix that, in addition to kids getting hacked and it takes over their avatars and such, [00:45:53] it's sort of the demoralizing of these kids that worked and, you know, earned those levels and earned those, whatever it is that you earn in games. [00:46:00] And I also know that you are involved with Black Girls in Cyber, another younger organization. [00:46:07] And then tying this back to your comment earlier about teaching kids and young adults this stuff and the fact that many parents may not even know this stuff or be aware of their kids' activities. [00:46:18] And that some of it can be very boring in school. [00:46:22] Again, this stuff is pretty interesting. [00:46:25] So if it's boring, that's, you know, there's better ways to do it. [00:46:28] And I'm wondering if with your kind of passions across those, seeing it across those areas, if you see going more towards that direction of education and resources for, you know, kids and young adults and via their parents, [00:46:44] if that's an area you're going in or direction you may go into. [00:46:48] Yeah. [00:46:50] Hi, Jennifer. [00:46:51] I mean, I'm currently, I don't really have like a five, 10 year kind of goal, but I always say when I get asked that, I want to be a thought leader within cybersecurity, [00:47:03] like helping other people get into the field, helping with diversifying the industry, because we all know that it's not a very diverse field. [00:47:12] And also educating the kids. [00:47:14] I mean, that's something that was born out of necessity saying that like, we don't have enough books about those. [00:47:20] Let's write it down. [00:47:21] Let's tell our stories with the hope that it will teach something. [00:47:25] And I think the feedback that I've received after, you know, getting the books out was very encouraging. [00:47:33] And I always come up with, I mean, ideas, but I'm like, I'm not writing a third book right now because I have to finish this school. [00:47:40] But, you know, whenever you're too busy, that's when the good ideas come. [00:47:45] So I try to like, just write it down. [00:47:47] And I was doing the same thing today for like the next book idea. [00:47:52] And then I was writing it down, like, but not now, you know, that prioritizing and saying no, not now is, it can be powerful sometimes very challenging too. [00:48:03] So, I mean, I like my work in cloud security, learning about cloud, but I would like to continue doing that, you know, getting more books to the kids as a conversation starter, because that's what it is. [00:48:19] It's meant to start conversation between a parent or, you know, a caring adult, a teacher and students to to pardon some of the important messages that we even are struggling as an adult to implement, right? [00:48:34] Security and, you know, implement this and that and just being aware of and how to be equipped better for the, you know, continuously getting sophisticated. [00:48:44] You know, we're always hearing about organizations getting hacked, the big ones, small ones, individuals getting ransomed and all of those things. [00:48:53] I think we can get head on. [00:48:56] And I would like to do both like building my career on the side, because like I said, I'm relatively newer in terms of getting my career built up because it's like a restart. [00:49:08] All of a sudden, you know, after the move, it's something that, okay, I have to go get into technology. [00:49:14] I don't know where I'm going. [00:49:15] Maybe I'll become a programmer and then doing the programming one and then pivoting to or maybe I need to learn more and then doing the four year degree and then discovering cybersecurity. [00:49:25] Like that's a very good, happy place. [00:49:27] But progressing that aspect of it, growing and learning more in cloud security, like in the corporate aspect of it. [00:49:36] But then also, I think it's very fulfilling and purposeful to also continue educating the younger generation as well. [00:49:44] So, yeah, I think it's something but it's a priority that just needs to get adjusted in terms of like, okay, what comes first? [00:49:53] I need to finish this well. [00:49:55] So and it's not only the school and the books, too. [00:49:59] It's like I get invited to speaking places now and just prioritizing those things and making them happen. [00:50:06] I think those are like a new territory that I'm learning. [00:50:11] Like I'm not a public speaker, but I learned from my mentor that the only way to get better at public speaking is to do public speaking. [00:50:19] So I'm like, okay, I'm going to do another one of something that would make me uncomfortable until I get comfortable. [00:50:25] So just teaching that aspect of it also. [00:50:28] So now getting trained and preparing for how to be a better speaker or even a TEDx. [00:50:36] Like those are the things I tend to aim high, but also celebrate that, you know, the smaller things that we're making to, you know, to get to our goal and the progress that we're making each day matters the most, you know. [00:50:52] So, yeah, hopefully I answered the question. [00:50:57] Yeah, I know you did. [00:50:58] Thank you. [00:50:58] And I hear when you talk about it, I hear like the passion for your cloud security as well as the education part of it. [00:51:05] And I see it as beyond the books, although, and those are great, but the speaking and if you're doing TEDx, that's awesome. [00:51:12] Or, you know, getting there and also just even working with organizations and schools, et cetera, on, you know, either one-off speaking engagements or curriculums, et cetera. [00:51:21] And as you said, it's not something that needs to be done tomorrow. [00:51:24] You have a lot on your plate right now, but it does sound like something that I think will be on your radar longer term. [00:51:31] It just sounds like it with your passion in that area. [00:51:34] Thanks so much, Lynette. [00:51:35] Great to see you. [00:51:37] Likewise. [00:51:37] Thank you, Jennifer. [00:51:38] Hey, Sainat, Vijay here. [00:51:40] Joined a little late, but I've been enjoying your talk so far. [00:51:44] Fascinating journey. [00:51:46] Worked in so many different, more than half a dozen different companies. [00:51:50] I have a question for you around DEI, like diversity. [00:51:55] Do you have, and when I say diversity, it doesn't have to be gender, age, race, social background. [00:52:01] It could be anything, right? [00:52:02] But my question to you is, as you worked in multiple organizations, do you have a couple of practical tips to promote diversity in teams or organizations? [00:52:24] That's my question for you. [00:52:26] Oh, thank you, Vijay. [00:52:27] Thank you for joining and tuning in. [00:52:30] And thank you for that question. [00:52:31] I, you know, it's my third company since I've been here. [00:52:36] I worked back home, but here it's my third company and the nonprofit that I am volunteering now in the board. [00:52:47] So if I get your question correctly, like what are some of the tips that how organizations can diversify the industry? [00:52:55] Is that accurate? [00:52:56] Yeah, yeah. [00:52:57] I just want to hear your journey, right? [00:52:59] Because everybody's talking about this and everybody has different thoughts. [00:53:02] But you've got such a unique background that I'd like to hear your thoughts. [00:53:10] Yeah, sure. [00:53:11] I mean, until recently, we have only 11% of women within the industry. [00:53:17] It's a good thing that it grew, I think, all the way to 24%. [00:53:21] But I also learned recently through a LinkedIn post that we're losing some of the women because now the number is also going down. [00:53:31] Something to that effect. [00:53:32] And then 9% of black professionals who identify as black within the industry are only 9%. [00:53:40] And I think that is a much lower number for black women as well. [00:53:44] So I think that is part of the reason why I joined Black Girls in Cyber. [00:53:49] And their mission is to increase this industry awareness and diversity in cybersecurity, STEM, and privacy through scholarship, mentorship, conferences, and community outreach to create that pipeline. [00:54:08] And also creating opportunities for entry level transitioners. [00:54:12] So I would say for companies and organizations, knowing this, I think can tap into number one, because you mentioned Vijay about how everyone's path isn't a traditional one. [00:54:25] A lot of the professionals that we know within cybersecurity are either coming from another field, so maybe not requiring degrees for everything that we're posting. [00:54:36] Even though I am going for education, it doesn't have to be always that way. [00:54:41] There are numerous ways of learning and getting into cybersecurity. [00:54:45] It could be pursuing certifications or doing labs that are, you know, that the professionals are very generous enough to share those free tools and some of the CTFs or, you know, by the way, cybersecurity isn't always about ethical hacking. [00:55:01] You know, it's not only about pen testing. [00:55:02] It could be there are GRC roles that are easier to get an entry roles. [00:55:08] But for corporations to tap into this type of organizations who are doing the work to diversify and create a talent pipeline for organizations, I think tapping into those organizations and supporting, really supporting diversity and not talking about only gender and also racially only, even though we know those staggering differences. [00:55:32] But in terms of like what can somebody from a different field, bring it to the field to solve this growing problem that we're having, you know, and because we hear within the industry that we have this much number of, I think 700,000 people shortage. [00:55:51] I mean, the number always keeps getting bigger. [00:55:54] I don't have the latest number, but it's always getting huge. [00:55:57] There is a huge gap between that huge talent that would remain open within the organization that we need to fill in this type of positions and this type of cybersecurity roles. [00:56:09] But then on the other side, you hear, I have a master's degree, but I'm struggling to break into the industry. [00:56:14] Like, I always don't know what the disconnect is between the two. [00:56:18] It's either has to do with personal branding, because now a lot of things are that has a lot of impact. [00:56:29] I've been hearing those conversations as well. [00:56:31] Like you have to build your brand. [00:56:32] You have to be known. [00:56:35] You know, like it's networking is very important. [00:56:37] You know, all of those things can maybe playing, but there is that huge disconnect. [00:56:42] So I would say like organizations stop into other areas because those hackers, we all know recently what happened with the bigger organization. [00:56:52] He doesn't have CISP certification, I'm sure. [00:56:57] He's only an 18, 17 year old kid. [00:56:59] So if they can do it, I think we should have a better way of integrating the workforce to make it available for everybody so that everybody can feel like I do belong in this industry. [00:57:13] I can make contribution and impact in protecting the nation. [00:57:19] I mean, it's also a matter of national security. [00:57:21] I mean, if you think about it and also protecting our data because identity theft is not fun. [00:57:27] Getting hacked is not fun. [00:57:29] So we really need to work on diversifying in all aspects of it to get those diverse perspectives that we need to solve the problem that the industry is facing. [00:57:39] So I have to answer that question, Vijay. [00:57:41] Very cool. [00:57:41] No, you did. [00:57:42] Very cool. [00:57:43] Thank you so much. [00:57:45] Kitty, back to you. [00:57:48] Yeah, thank you. [00:57:49] Yeah, I'm really glad you touched on that. [00:57:52] And that was a really insightful question and answer. [00:57:55] Thank you for that. [00:57:57] Nate, a frequent member of this community, has joined the stage since the last question. [00:58:02] So, Nate, are you available to ask your question? [00:58:06] Welcome. [00:58:07] I am, if I can fend my dog off far enough from my dinner. [00:58:11] But, no, Zanette, thanks so much for sharing your story this evening. [00:58:15] Save your dinner, Nate. [00:58:17] It's safe for the moment. [00:58:19] Look, I've been a huge fan of yours since a couple of months ago when you stepped up on the stage and shared some of your initial insights for the books you pushed out. [00:58:27] I mean, it's absolutely incredible that you recognize that there's a way to improve the world we live in. [00:58:33] And you wanted to do something about that. [00:58:35] And I absolutely love the conviction that you've, you know, delivered to actually, you know, put that in motion. [00:58:42] You can come a, you know, I don't want to call you a newcomer at this point. [00:58:46] I mean, four or five years in, you've been dabbling in the cybersecurity space for a good bit now. [00:58:50] What have you been surprised about within our industry? [00:58:54] And I guess, you know, better put, what do you want to change next? [00:58:59] Thank you, Nate, for the kind words. [00:59:01] I appreciate that. [00:59:04] One of them is the one that I mentioned to answer Vijay's question, like the diversity of it. [00:59:08] Like, I would like that to get changed. [00:59:10] I would like the women's participation to get at least close to 60%. [00:59:15] Why not more? [00:59:16] But at least, you know. [00:59:18] And the other, I mean, that's the main thing within the industry. [00:59:25] And then also not encouraging, like, the gatekeepers. [00:59:29] And there are gatekeepers within the industry. [00:59:33] I think that's what I would call them. [00:59:34] Because we need to make, I think, the entry to the field a little bit more accessible to people to navigate other ways of getting to the cybersecurity. [00:59:51] Other than, you know, the education piece. [00:59:54] Like, I wish more people are mentoring people. [00:59:57] And I know that the cybersecurity industry, like, at least the one that I know in my network in LinkedIn, they're very helpful. [01:00:06] They're always sharing free things and resources and encouraging people to get into the industry. [01:00:12] It's like, it's always common for me, like, jumping LinkedIn. [01:00:15] And I always see the folks sharing, if you want to get into cybersecurity, you know, here are the free resources that you can use. [01:00:22] And you do belong. [01:00:23] I think if I wasn't within the industry and if I were to restart this journey and if I had known LinkedIn, I think it would have been a lot more easier. [01:00:34] Because, you know, there are people who are always sharing. [01:00:37] For example, my mentor, Ajayani, I think he was a guest here, too. [01:00:41] He always talks about, you know, follow the people that you want to get, you know, the roles that you want to be in. [01:00:48] For example, if you want to be a CISO, like follow the CISOs, what are they talking about? [01:00:52] What are some of the roles that are out there that the job descriptions are saying? [01:00:56] What are some of the skills that you can build in? [01:00:59] These are for experience at once. [01:01:01] But for people who might be transitioning from another field with leadership skills, those can be a good fit for a CISO role in the future if they want to get into cybersecurity or other type of things, other type of fields as well that can be very useful. [01:01:18] So I would say the diversity of it and the entry, like why are people struggling to break into the industry? [01:01:26] And then what else? [01:01:29] Nothing on top of mind, but if I remember, I'll add more, Nate. [01:01:34] No, it's fantastic. [01:01:35] Thank you so much. [01:01:35] I mean, I couldn't agree more. [01:01:37] The diversity inclusion aspect, I mean, has been top of mind for a lot of companies and folks, you know, and really for me, it's how do we just spread the wealth [01:01:47] and get more people involved to bring, you know, new thought, innovative approaches, their diverse backgrounds and the way they break down the problem set. [01:01:56] And you're right. [01:01:56] I mean, a lot of it stems from accessibility and how do we break down those barriers to make it accessible to those folks? [01:02:03] So just really appreciate it. [01:02:04] Thank you so much for sharing. [01:02:05] Well, great. [01:02:13] Thank you for asking that wonderful question, Nate. [01:02:16] It is, again, the top of the hour. [01:02:20] So it is time for our handy dandy room reset. [01:02:23] For those of you who are just joining us, welcome to our Clubhouse Fireside Chat with Zanette. [01:02:30] She's an author and cloud security engineer and lives in Minnesota like many, many fabulous people. [01:02:39] So I hope that you're enjoying this. [01:02:43] If you like what you're hearing, please feel free to click on the little greenhouse at the top of your screen and follow the Fireside Chat group. [01:02:50] And also by doing that, you'll know about all the things that we have coming up. [01:02:55] Just as a reminder, we typically have these on Wednesday nights. [01:03:00] So any Wednesday, feel free to join us. [01:03:03] And we're now at the time where we invite people to come up to the stage and ask questions if you have them. [01:03:10] So feel free to come on up. [01:03:12] We love hearing about what's on your mind and, you know, learning new things from all of you. [01:03:17] I see that we have joining us Encrypted. [01:03:23] I like the name. [01:03:25] Looks like from Dallas-Fort Worth. [01:03:27] But Encrypted, what is your question for Zanette? [01:03:31] Hey, Lisa. [01:03:33] Hey, Katie. [01:03:34] Howdy, fam. [01:03:35] Zanette, thank you. [01:03:36] I am so impressed by everything you've accomplished. [01:03:40] Your resilience. [01:03:41] Like if I, you just define the word resilience. [01:03:46] Going through this and writing the books and raising kids is just, sometimes I start complaining if I get an email and a phone call at the same time. [01:03:55] Let alone having to manage all of that and do it all beautifully. [01:03:59] And you make it seem like it's, you know, it's second nature to you. [01:04:03] So kudos to you. [01:04:05] And I appreciate it. [01:04:05] I actually glanced at the book. [01:04:08] I snagged a copy. [01:04:09] And I also pass it to a couple of friends who are hosting a cyber awareness seminar as a raffle. [01:04:16] I think it would make a really nice gift for folks. [01:04:20] But I have two questions for you. [01:04:22] The first question is, I know you said you go to schools and author talks. [01:04:28] I want to hear the craziest question you've ever been asked. [01:04:31] Because kids are, you never know what they're going to say. [01:04:34] So my first question to you is, what's the craziest question you've been asked by a student? [01:04:38] And the second question is, if anybody walks into your house, what's the one thing that you have that if people saw you would think you're a little too paranoid about security, [01:04:48] but you think it's something that should be normalized? [01:04:50] This is encrypted and I'm done. [01:04:54] Oh, wow. [01:04:56] I have to think a lot about those questions. [01:04:58] But thank you so much, encrypted, for coming in for all the kind words. [01:05:01] I appreciate you. [01:05:04] The author talks. [01:05:06] Okay, so the questions that they ask, they ask a lot of questions. [01:05:08] And in between my readings, they ask a lot of questions and they interrupt. [01:05:12] So usually my husband comes with me and he says, like, I don't know how you have the patience, like, to get interrupted this much. [01:05:19] And I'm still carrying on smiling. [01:05:21] But when I get home, I'm tired. [01:05:22] Number one, I'm introverted. [01:05:24] But with the kids, I'm better. [01:05:25] But I get tired. [01:05:26] Like, so you let those little humans take all of your energy. [01:05:30] Yes, I did. [01:05:30] But it's so fulfilling and amazing. [01:05:34] But usually they say that, like, at the back of the book, I open it and I show them the author. [01:05:44] I think she does look like me. [01:05:46] I don't know. [01:05:46] She says, but it's you. [01:05:47] And I say, no, it's not me. [01:05:48] But they say, it's you. [01:05:49] It looks like you. [01:05:50] And then they laugh about that. [01:05:53] But I don't recall on top of my mind what questions that they ask me. [01:05:57] I'll have to think and get back to you. [01:05:59] The other question, maybe if you don't mind me repeating that question, you said if somebody were to walk to my home, some of the things that I would watch out. [01:06:08] As a security professional, I know most of us are paranoid about a lot of things. [01:06:15] But the one thing that you do that nobody else that you know does, and for you, it makes perfect sense. [01:06:22] And you think that's how you should take IoT security or whatever the case may be. [01:06:29] And I think freak out, just like anybody else. [01:06:32] I mean, if it's an intruder or if it's just a guest. [01:06:36] So, Zinnett, this is something that you do that's kind of your, it's kind of a practice that you have within your household. [01:06:47] Like, you don't, you don't. [01:06:48] Oh, I see. [01:06:49] I see what you mean. [01:06:50] Yeah. [01:06:50] Yeah. [01:06:50] I get it now. [01:06:52] Usually, we don't have the IoT devices. [01:06:57] But if, I hope I got the question now, because we don't have IoT devices. [01:07:03] Like, we're, I'm always, like, conscious about those things. [01:07:07] Even, like, for our kids, when they were gaming, like, we're segregating, like, segmenting the network so that they can play partly. [01:07:16] It's because of the speed, but also the security aspect of it. [01:07:19] And just always saying, like, my husband, he's always about getting the next new tech. [01:07:25] Like, he's always fascinated by those things. [01:07:27] I am not. [01:07:28] And when it comes to, like, I have to get the new phone or I have to get, let's get something that's fancy that would make our life easier. [01:07:34] But for me, it's like, what if it's listening to us or something like that, you know, like, but not too paranoid, but try to be, you know, like, careful if that's what you meant. [01:07:45] But I'll be happy to answer if I didn't address it. [01:07:50] I think you did. [01:07:51] Thank you. [01:07:52] I have a couple of friends. [01:07:54] One of them, he would never give his children the Wi-Fi password. [01:07:58] And he would print a barcode. [01:08:00] He's using an app, and he has that barcode on the fridge. [01:08:03] So they come home, they scan it, and it automatically populates the username and password. [01:08:08] That way, he doesn't want to risk them sharing that password with somebody else. [01:08:13] So this is something I thought it said a little extreme, but it made perfect sense to him. [01:08:17] And I think it's a good security hygiene, especially if you have children. [01:08:21] And I was thinking, you know, maybe if you had something similar to that. [01:08:25] But you answered, I see. [01:08:28] And this has been really insightful. [01:08:31] I can't thank you enough for making the time to share your experience and expertise. [01:08:35] And also, Neil, Vijay, and everybody else asking the right questions and making it as engaging as it's been. [01:08:42] And can we get an update on Nate's dog situation? [01:08:45] Make sure who won, whether it's the dog or Nate. [01:08:47] I would be interested. [01:08:49] I would be interested in that update. [01:08:51] Thank you. [01:08:52] Thank you. [01:08:53] Thanks, y'all. [01:08:57] Well, great. [01:08:58] That was a great set of questions. [01:09:00] Now, one of the questions that was in the chat is moving from legal to the tech side. [01:09:07] What do you think? [01:09:10] What are the challenges with that leap? [01:09:13] And, you know, a lot of people on these calls, I know, sometimes talk about, you know, what if we moved from tech into legal? [01:09:20] What advice or what things have you observed as part of that process that you think would be helpful? [01:09:28] Going back to legal from security, I think I would say, like, it depends on the person's interest. [01:09:34] Like, if you're interested into the privacy aspect, I would, I sometimes imagine, like, if I were to learn law here and know cybersecurity, I think there are great combinations. [01:09:48] That would be very useful for organizations and just as a career for yourself. [01:09:55] I think it would be interesting, but I didn't go through that path, so I wouldn't know, I guess. [01:10:00] It was the other way around for me, coming from the legal field to cybersecurity. [01:10:06] And initially, it wasn't even the thought. [01:10:08] It was just me just getting fascinated by technology and what it would do to solve people's lives. [01:10:14] And also, you know, just not having that much of the access growing up, right? [01:10:19] Even in high school, we used to have computers for, I think, one hour per week. [01:10:25] And we would sit, like, one computer would be assigned to us for three to four students. [01:10:30] And my name is Z, so I would get more students assigned to ours, like, to my group. [01:10:36] Sometimes it would be four students, and we would be fighting to touch the keyboard. [01:10:39] Like, that has been my experience back home in high school. [01:10:43] And then when I go to law school, I mean, it would be just the readings. [01:10:48] We don't have, like, the access to the Internet. [01:10:51] We don't have access to library because a lot of the people who find it interesting is also, like, I didn't grow up owning a children's book or having a children's book to the point of, you know, having a children's book of my own. [01:11:08] I didn't think about that until I had my book in a public library for the first time in St. Paul here in Minnesota. [01:11:16] And then I just, my husband took a picture of it. [01:11:18] And then I was in the car, and I was posting about it, saying that, you know, I never grew up with a children's book. [01:11:23] I never owned one, but I was able to. [01:11:28] I've seen it. [01:11:29] Yes. [01:11:30] Can you hear me? [01:11:31] Yeah, I can. [01:11:31] Sorry to interrupt. [01:11:32] That's such a memorable story, right? [01:11:36] How did you feel when you saw that? [01:11:40] That your book in the library, right? [01:11:43] Like, it's yours. [01:11:44] How did you feel? [01:11:46] Yeah, that's the part where I was explaining, Vijay. [01:11:48] Like, when it got included into the library for the first time, my husband took a picture of that. [01:11:55] And then I was in the car, and I was about to post it on LinkedIn or, I think, social media. [01:12:03] And I wrote, that's when it came out. [01:12:06] Like, sometimes you don't even realize, like, your experiences until at some point. [01:12:11] And I said, you know, because I remember when we moved here, I intentionally, our apartment that we used to live is on a public library building. [01:12:24] So I would at least take my younger kids to, for story time, right? [01:12:30] At least twice a week or something. [01:12:32] And I just used to get so fascinated by it. [01:12:35] I mean, I've always been fascinated back home. [01:12:37] Earlier, I mentioned about not having the time now to read books. [01:12:42] But back home, it's not having the books, but really wanting to have the books because I didn't have that much kids there. [01:12:49] And I have more time. [01:12:50] So now it's, like, just getting fascinated by, like, how do people create this children's book with this old illustration? [01:12:58] And people have access, and they can take it for free at home, and they can read it and return it back, and they can have as much book as they want. [01:13:05] Like, that's been the fascination that, like, I had for years, right? [01:13:11] Even before the idea of writing a book crossed my mind. [01:13:15] So when I saw that, and I went back to that same library and looking at the picture, I think you see it all usually on LinkedIn. [01:13:23] It's, like, it looks like it was taken by a professional, but it was actually my co-husband, who I usually harass him to take good pictures of me. [01:13:29] And they're, like, take a picture of me, like, of me. [01:13:32] And then he took a picture of that. [01:13:34] And when I posted, that's when, like, it came into a realization that a lot of people commented saying that, like, that story gave us goosebumps. [01:13:44] So, yeah, I think that's how I describe it. [01:13:48] Thanks, Vijay. [01:13:48] Hey, your story has been amazing. [01:13:51] Hey, listen, if you don't mind, I want to switch cadence a little bit. [01:13:56] And, you know, there's so many fascinating stories that you've been sharing. [01:14:02] I want to, but we have limited time. [01:14:04] So I want to, if it's all right with you, I want to shoot, like, five, six very quick, short questions, like, fireside chat. [01:14:13] And maybe you could give a response in, like, 20, 30 seconds, and then we move on to the next question. [01:14:17] Does this sound good, Zine? [01:14:19] Yes, go ahead. [01:14:20] Awesome. [01:14:21] Awesome. [01:14:22] Awesome. [01:14:22] Very cool. [01:14:23] So question number one. [01:14:26] And I've got to dig a little bit into the personal side. [01:14:30] So what is your most delightful journey when you made the move from Ethiopia over here? [01:14:40] Delightful one moment? [01:14:42] Are you talking about one moment? [01:14:43] Like, I don't want to say cultural shock, but, you know, I'm sure you would have found something. [01:14:49] Oh, wow, this is different. [01:14:51] The weather. [01:14:51] The weather. [01:14:53] The weather. [01:14:54] Yeah. [01:14:54] Snowy Minnesota. [01:14:55] I mentioned it in the beginning. [01:14:56] You missed that. [01:14:57] I talked a lot about that. [01:14:58] I missed that. [01:14:59] Love it. [01:15:00] All right. [01:15:00] Second question. [01:15:01] How did you focus on improving your public speaking skills? [01:15:08] Could you share one tip? [01:15:10] Yeah. [01:15:10] Like I said, I'm taking on my mentor's advice, even though it makes me uncomfortable, just showing [01:15:16] up and saying yes whenever I get invited to events, because I'm getting those a lot and [01:15:20] I'm trying to say no, but I'm trying to say yes and then improve in the process. [01:15:25] So doing more public speaking to get over that fear. [01:15:28] Love it. [01:15:29] Question three. [01:15:30] What are some of your, name two of your favorite hobbies? [01:15:34] You did mention a couple of times lack of time in school, but if you did have time, what [01:15:40] would you learn to do? [01:15:42] Oh, reading books and having more outdoor time with my kids. [01:15:47] Like we, we try to go to parks, just play outside, just be in the outdoors. [01:15:56] Awesome. [01:15:58] The next question, right? [01:15:59] Like clearly, like, like a lot of people, you know, you're juggling a lot of things, but [01:16:04] you've been pretty successful at it, right? [01:16:06] It's work, home, family, writing a book. [01:16:11] How do you find time to juggle some of your things? [01:16:14] Yeah, you better believe it. [01:16:17] I also have only 24 hours, but I think learning to delegate things. [01:16:23] I used to think that I have to be everywhere, but now I'm okay. [01:16:27] My husband takes all four kids to Sky Zone, which they are right now. [01:16:32] And while I'm doing this, otherwise I wouldn't be able to unmute. [01:16:36] Delegating that and knowing that I can't do everything. [01:16:39] I think that has been helpful. [01:16:40] And having a great partner like my husband is very supportive of what I do. [01:16:45] Love it. [01:16:45] Love it. [01:16:46] Last question from me. [01:16:48] Let's say you won the lotto, right? [01:16:51] You got a few millions. [01:16:53] What would you do next? [01:16:54] What would you do next? [01:16:56] I don't, I don't think I would even pursue that. [01:17:01] But if I, if I get that, I'll just give it to charity and like help the poor. [01:17:07] We hear a lot more unfortunate things in the world. [01:17:11] So just help the poor and the needy, like the, that are affected by natural calamities [01:17:19] that we're seeing constantly happening in our world and just helping and supporting people. [01:17:26] Super noble. [01:17:26] So again, thank you. [01:17:29] It's just been a delight. [01:17:30] Katie, over to you. [01:17:31] Thank you so much. [01:17:33] Yeah, thank you. [01:17:34] Yeah, I love those rapid fire questions. [01:17:36] Because we all want to get to know you so much in 90 minutes. [01:17:39] And it can be really tough to get all the questions in. [01:17:41] And actually, we have a couple of really great questions that have come up in the chat. [01:17:45] So if I may, I'm going to speak for a couple of our listeners on the one at the bottom here. [01:17:50] George Comidi, actually our guest last week, he's at a conference. [01:17:53] He wasn't able to jump up on stage, but wanted to ask your career restart in cyber is incredible. [01:18:00] And, you know, it's, it loves the trajectory of success, but curious about the most instructive [01:18:05] moments of failure you've also had along the way. [01:18:09] And he's asking what mistakes or missteps have taught you the most? [01:18:19] That taught me the most. [01:18:21] I think the fact that just going to school while being able, trying to being a parent is very [01:18:28] challenging in itself. [01:18:29] Like, I remember one time in the beginning, and this isn't, this isn't even when I was in cyber, [01:18:36] this is like in just in the beginning, like that first semester, I was cooking in the kitchen, [01:18:43] and I had a fairly a newborn. [01:18:47] And then I was doing homework. [01:18:49] And then everything just got crazy, right? [01:18:51] And I'm like, I'm not doing this. [01:18:54] I'm just gonna, you know, and like I said, it's nighttime, the classes, and I'm trying [01:18:59] to do this during the daytime. [01:19:01] And I have a three year old at that moment. [01:19:03] So, and at that time, we didn't know anybody, we don't have people. [01:19:07] And the person who welcomed us also went back to Ethiopia. [01:19:12] So we were starting to get to know people, which we call family right now. [01:19:17] But at that point, it was very lonely experience, even, you know, like postpartum, like that [01:19:22] was very lonely in terms of, you know, knowing a community where I had my first child to the [01:19:28] second one, where, you know, I have C-sections for all four of them, because they always decide [01:19:35] to be 11 pounds when they're born or four of them. [01:19:38] Like, if you look at them now, they're just a normal kid, but they always get chubby. [01:19:42] And I always needed the C-section, right? [01:19:44] So the healing process, that's the reason why I'm mentioning like the method of delivery [01:19:49] is that the healing process takes time and support. [01:19:52] So my husband, after he got me home, he had to go back to work because the person who hired [01:20:00] him at that point, he was like, you have a new baby, now you have to come back to work. [01:20:04] So like, he had to go back to work. [01:20:05] It's like me watching a toddler. [01:20:07] And then at the same time, you know, watching a newborn, that lonely experience, but that [01:20:12] going back to that idea of managing that, being able to manage that during the daytime while [01:20:20] working on a homework, right? [01:20:22] That experience at one point I said like, you know, I'm not doing this. [01:20:26] And my direct action is I collected, I was taking three classes at that point. [01:20:31] I remember, I think it was like basic introduction operating system. [01:20:35] And I think HTML or something like that. [01:20:38] But at that point, it was really foreign to me because I don't have that in high school. [01:20:42] I didn't learn that, any of those things. [01:20:44] So I just collected those, put them in a trash bag. [01:20:47] That was my solution and took them back to like directly went to like outside and then [01:20:53] dumped it in the trash. [01:20:54] Like, don't do it. [01:20:54] That's not a good advice. [01:20:55] But I did that at one point. [01:20:57] Like that frustration in the beginning of not being able to understand that or like not [01:21:03] being able to see the people, you know, that look like you in your classrooms continuously, [01:21:09] class after class in these programs where people assume that, you know, when they see [01:21:14] you in the university, like, are you studying nursing? [01:21:17] No, it's computer science or computer science. [01:21:19] They say, oh, that's different. [01:21:21] You know, I used to get those comments too and not being able to see that and just the [01:21:26] intimidation of it where whenever we're working on some project, let's say Python or something [01:21:32] like that, and the students would talk about, oh, we had this exposure. [01:21:35] We worked on this project when we were in high school. [01:21:37] And I look back and like, I don't, I didn't even have a computer. [01:21:41] Like, how do I get through this? [01:21:42] Just that challenge of balancing school and in the beginning until I get used to it. [01:21:49] And I would mention, and that frustration of getting used to like coming from a totally [01:21:55] different background to pursue something newer. [01:21:57] I think those were the moments like that has taught me to be resilient in times of when [01:22:04] things get hard, you know? [01:22:06] So I think that on that top of my mind. [01:22:11] Well, George mentioned while you were speaking in the chat that moms are super power or superheroes [01:22:17] full stop. [01:22:18] So I don't know if that's your third book. [01:22:19] I mean, I don't, I don't know for breaking news. [01:22:22] If that's not, then maybe it could be your fourth book. [01:22:24] Moms are superheroes. [01:22:26] They are. [01:22:27] I love to give that. [01:22:29] And yeah, I certainly couldn't agree with you more, George. [01:22:32] I agree. [01:22:33] Moms are superheroes. [01:22:34] And yeah. [01:22:36] So thank you, Zanette, for that. [01:22:37] And I think that you've touched on something that was kind of interesting to me too. [01:22:41] If I could just do one quick follow-up. [01:22:43] Just on the whole, you know, diversity conversation we were having earlier, you mentioned that in [01:22:49] school, people are asking you questions about what program you're in. [01:22:53] And I can't tell you how many times, particularly earlier on in my career, that I was, I was [01:22:58] not, no one assumed I was at all in any, you know, engineering capacity or was just always [01:23:05] like, oh, hey, can you please tell me where the bathroom is? [01:23:09] I'm marketing person or something, you know, just some, just that there was just an association [01:23:13] within just for me, it was my, it happened to be my, my gender or my age. [01:23:18] But I think you just touched on something really interesting because earlier on VJ asked a question [01:23:22] about, you know, how do we continue to navigate that? [01:23:25] You're hitting the circuit a little bit more heavily. [01:23:28] And I think that's awesome what you're doing too about, you know, just you only get better [01:23:32] by repetition. [01:23:33] It's one of the reasons that I came on the clubhouse initially too, it's just to practice [01:23:37] getting better. [01:23:38] One of my mentors, you know, it was like the only way you'll ever get better is by doing [01:23:42] that. [01:23:43] Todd Fitzgerald actually is the first person who gave me feedback on my first speaking [01:23:48] engagement in 2016. [01:23:49] And he was like, eh, that's okay. [01:23:52] Keep doing it. [01:23:53] But I think that that's, what's great. [01:23:55] And that's why I really liked George's question about failure. [01:23:57] I really liked what you had to say too about, you know, we're still experiencing this. [01:24:01] You experienced this by people asking that question. [01:24:03] And we experienced it in the cybersecurity space. [01:24:06] What do you think that we need to do as an, you know, what can we do to be better? [01:24:13] And in the types of programs, you mentioned a couple that you are already involved with. [01:24:18] Are there any other organizations that you've run into in being asked to speak at more of the [01:24:24] conferences where we should be aware as a cybersecurity community of some newer organizations that are out [01:24:30] out there that we could make us more cognizant of this? [01:24:34] Yeah, I think outside of Black Girls in Cyber, that I got reached to just be a volunteer in the [01:24:40] board by the founder. [01:24:42] But I think I also know about empowered cybersecurity. [01:24:46] That's also for women. [01:24:48] I know that a lot of the men ask me like, is this only for women? [01:24:52] And yeah, but there are organizations that are also Blacks in Cyber Security, that there [01:24:58] are nonprofit organizations that are doing the same type of work, like providing that pipeline [01:25:04] or training, the certification. [01:25:07] I think supporting those organizations really means a lot in terms of helping those students [01:25:15] or career transitioners to be able to get into the field. [01:25:19] I think that support comes to mind. [01:25:23] But there's also Black Girls to Hack. [01:25:26] I think it's important finding your community. [01:25:29] I think it helps with, it's better than doing it isolated. [01:25:34] I mean, I didn't know about it when I was pursuing. [01:25:37] It was like me going to class. [01:25:39] I tried and try to survive the doing internship part-time because at one point I almost, because [01:25:47] schooling, the kids and part-time internship was a lot at one point. [01:25:52] But I thought, you know, hey, I'm a new person within, you know, in a new continent, basically [01:25:58] in a new industry, trying to get into that workforce even. [01:26:02] Because that transition is very, very, it's a lot of change for an individual. [01:26:09] So getting a community to get that and knowing someone speaking about your challenges, and [01:26:15] I think, or the support even, like when you're about to quit, that encouragement, I think has [01:26:20] been very, I think that's very valuable for people who are doing this. [01:26:24] Because I didn't have that when I joined in, that's coming from not knowing because I was [01:26:28] just focused on the kids or just finishing up school or doing the internship and being [01:26:35] able to get that America experience, right? [01:26:38] I didn't have that initially. [01:26:41] I really appreciated that IT internship at a local government because it's a huge transition [01:26:47] for me, again, you know, from staying and talking to little humans at home, three kids, [01:26:51] and then being able to, you know, to fight off not singing the kids songs that I just forcefully [01:26:57] memorized, all the wheels on the bus and everything, just being able to understand the work culture [01:27:03] here in the U.S. [01:27:06] And then also getting the experience that is needed, like in the IT space for a couple of [01:27:11] months, transitioned within, and then also moving on to the cybersecurity space once I knew [01:27:17] that that had been my interest. [01:27:18] So I think I forgot the original question. [01:27:22] I was moving here and there, but yeah, the organizations, right? [01:27:26] Empower cybersecurity. [01:27:27] I think Tia Hopkins, she's the founder. [01:27:29] I think there are a lot of professionals who are doing the work in this area, like to increase [01:27:37] industry awareness and diversity within cybersecurity, STEM, and privacy as well. [01:27:43] Yes. [01:27:44] Yeah. [01:27:45] I mean, we talk about, I never liked to talk about something and then not really, you know, [01:27:53] you mentioned empowerment as being kind of one of the baselines. [01:27:56] And I just want to make sure we're empowering, you know, our audience who's listening and anyone [01:28:00] listening to the replay with, you know, opportunities to get more involved as well. [01:28:05] So that's why I asked the question and thank you for the answer. [01:28:07] I appreciate it. [01:28:08] Yeah. [01:28:09] You're welcome. [01:28:10] You're welcome, Katie. [01:28:11] And I just remembered one thing, like share the mic and cyber campaign that has been really [01:28:16] valuable. [01:28:17] I forgot to mention that one. [01:28:18] I know that October that is coming up. [01:28:21] Camille Sart now who's at the White House. [01:28:25] She's a director there for a cyber national cyber defense, something. [01:28:30] I forgot the title, but she's over at White House. [01:28:32] She and Lauren Zebrick, they started this initiative to, to create, I think it started in 2020, late [01:28:40] 2020, at least that's when I found out. [01:28:42] I think this is the fourth or fifth iteration of it where they combine a black cybersecurity [01:28:50] practitioner within the industry, whether men or women, and then pair them up with allies. [01:28:58] And then for that day, share the mic and cyber, they would talk about that person's achievement, [01:29:05] what it does, and just introducing like sort of like a social media takeover kind of thing. [01:29:10] And then they would, and that has been a really great experience for me getting paired up with [01:29:16] different professionals and allies who were just advocating on your behalf for that day, [01:29:22] I guess. [01:29:23] And it's been, and it continues beyond that as well, because a lot of, through that exposure, [01:29:28] I think sometimes for people, it's about the exposure and just showing the support and [01:29:33] showing true allyship. [01:29:34] I think that has been helpful. [01:29:35] So for this year, October 21st is going to be happening. [01:29:39] And I have been paired with another professional Bryson board. [01:29:45] So I'm looking forward to that. [01:29:46] And I just want to throw it out there. [01:29:48] So getting involved in those things can also help you with getting a lot of opportunities [01:29:52] as well. [01:29:53] And a way for allies to help and support. [01:30:00] Well, you know, the unfortunate reality right now is that we are kind of coming to the end [01:30:07] of our time. [01:30:08] And we usually like to wrap up with what advice would you give your younger self? [01:30:15] I would say the opportunities are endless. [01:30:24] If you have a positive mindset and how you would like to use your time, how, I mean, I [01:30:31] would say just there are a lot of endless opportunities and just seize the moment and thrive and be awesome. [01:30:40] I think that's what I would say, like as a younger self, but most, I think when we moved here, I think I have a lot more stories when we moved here. [01:30:48] I used to like, so my husband, when he goes through the office, I used to like prepare his coffee. [01:30:57] And, and, and, and I learned also driving after I moved here. [01:31:01] Right. [01:31:01] And I still don't like driving in the highway, like that speed of it. [01:31:05] I don't like it. [01:31:05] And one time, I think it's after I had my third child, it might be the postpartum talking, [01:31:10] but I gave him his coffee and I was saying goodbye to him. [01:31:13] And I was like, I want to be doing what you're doing when, you know, when I'm done. [01:31:18] When I was in my school, I mean, at that point it seems so unachievable. [01:31:21] Like who would want to hire me? [01:31:23] Like the market is so like, there are a lot of people who are experienced. [01:31:28] Like I used to have those feelings, you know, but I would just still finish and learn and, [01:31:34] and make something out of my time. [01:31:36] Cause I, I am not one who would like to waste time. [01:31:40] Like, I think that's very valuable and it might be coming from being a mother because [01:31:44] a lot of things that are, can be unpredictable with kids. [01:31:49] Right. [01:31:49] Right. [01:31:50] That's why, like, I am one thing if I'm not, is I'm not a procrastinator. [01:31:53] If I have to do something, I have to do it and get it done. [01:31:55] Uh, if I can, if it, if it can be done today. [01:31:58] So, uh, that would be the advice that I have. [01:32:00] But at that moment I told him, like, I want to be like you, like being able to comfortably [01:32:04] go to work outside of home and then just take my coffee and then be comfortably driving and, [01:32:10] uh, working in, in the area that I like. [01:32:13] And then he said, like, you will. [01:32:15] And you know, at that moment, it didn't seem to be achievable, but now he says that like, [01:32:19] you just, uh, started and restarted your career, uh, less than five, four years. [01:32:25] And you're almost making as much as I'm making, if not more. [01:32:29] So like, he's like, I'm so proud of you, you know? [01:32:31] So I would say like, um, uh, you know, you, if you're passionate, if you do want something, [01:32:37] it's all a matter of how much you want that something. [01:32:39] So you, you can achieve that and, um, and be, um, the person that you want to be. [01:32:44] So I would say like. [01:32:52] Thank you so much. [01:32:56] Well, I think that is a great note to end it on. [01:32:59] Thank you so much for coming and sharing, um, yourself tonight, uh, Zanette. [01:33:04] And we look forward to seeing everybody here next week at the next fireside chat. [01:33:09] Have a great weekend, everyone. [01:33:12] Thank you so much for having me on. [01:33:14] I appreciate you all. [01:33:17] Great. [01:33:17] Thank you. [01:33:17] Have a good week, everybody.