Fireside Chat w/Talya Parker, Engineer @ Google

[00:00:00] to you banks would say, get education as cheaply as possible. And this is probably the cheapest [00:00:06] you'll be able to get it. Just have to spend the time with us this evening. The other comment that [00:00:13] I'll make, and plus maybe some of us on the stage, our comments and opinion are our own and do not [00:00:20] represent or not representative of our current or prior employer. So we ask that you please keep [00:00:25] that in mind as you hear us comment and give you our opinion, our raw opinion, not with any sort of [00:00:33] hidden or background agenda on there. So please keep that in mind. And then the last thing I'll say [00:00:39] is on the top left of your screen where it says fireside chat, there's a little greenhouse. If [00:00:44] you're not a member of our fireside chat, click that little greenhouse. You can join our club. [00:00:49] What does that give you? It gives you the schedule so that you can see who's coming up next and [00:00:53] subsequent weeks. And it also allows you to listen to the playbacks from prior weeks. [00:00:58] And as well as today, if you want to listen to it, if you've missed something or you found [00:01:01] something very critical and interesting. So feel free to share this. There's little options there [00:01:06] you can share. You can chat with us in the, in the room chat. Feel free to use that. If you don't want [00:01:11] to jump up on stage and answer the question, you can use that and we'll read off your question [00:01:15] on stage. But without further ado, I'm just going to go around the room. Talia, we'll leave you for last. [00:01:20] So I'm Tomas. I was going to say Octavia. I was going to say I'm Octavia. I'm not Octavia. [00:01:27] I am Tomas Maldonado. I am the CISO for the National Football League. Octavia, over to you. [00:01:34] Hey, Tomas. Thank you. I'm Octavia Howell. I'm the CISO for Equifax Canada. And as Tomas said, [00:01:40] my opinions are mine and mine alone. And I am happy to be here. I'm happy to welcome Talia over to [00:01:47] you, Carl. Over to you, Anil. Thanks, Octavia. Anil Varghese. I'm a virtual CISO [00:01:54] serving as leadership for a firm out here in the U.S. as well as one in the U.K. On to you, Katie. [00:02:01] Hi, good evening, everybody. I'm Katie Hanahan. I'm the vice president of cybersecurity strategy [00:02:06] and VCISO and run our VCISO program at IT Savvy. Back to you, Tomas. [00:02:16] You are very, very efficient and succinct this evening. So look, without further ado, [00:02:21] we're joined by Talia Parker, who has a number of different things that she has done in her career. [00:02:26] If you've ever looked up on LinkedIn, she's most recently an engineer for privacy, safety, and security [00:02:33] at Google. But she's also a founder and executive director at Black Girls and Cyber. So really [00:02:39] interested in having a great conversation with Talia Parker this evening. So Talia, why don't you [00:02:45] take a few minutes? I know I read off the titles, but why don't you take a few minutes to really [00:02:50] introduce yourself? And while you're doing that, why don't we just jump into the conversation and why [00:02:55] don't you tell us a little bit more about your origin story? [00:03:00] Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that introduction. My origin story is actually kind of long, but [00:03:08] I'll definitely take the opportunity to share here and I'll leave the rest for any questions later. [00:03:16] And we like long, so don't worry about being long. [00:03:20] Okay. Okay. Awesome. Great. [00:03:25] So just a little bit about my background. I'm actually a Jamaican. I was born in Montego Bay, [00:03:32] Jamaica, and my family and I migrated to the U.S. when I was younger. And I had the opportunity to [00:03:43] culturally, right, you have very few options in terms of like what you become when you get older. [00:03:51] I think it's like doctor, lawyer, maybe teacher, you know, those were like really the buckets and [00:03:58] categories created for me. And so when I went off to college, I went to Florida A&M University, HBCU, [00:04:07] if there's any Rattlers in here. And I actually ended up changing my major a couple times because [00:04:15] I went there to do pharmacy, right? And I took, I was like a very, I guess, academically overachiever [00:04:28] throughout my grade years. And I took all the honors and all the AP classes and I always made like straight A's [00:04:37] and things like that. So I was very confident about doing this whole pharmacy gig. And then I took a [00:04:44] class in chemistry and that really changed the game for me. I was like, okay, this college chemistry was a [00:04:50] lot different from high school AP chemistry. So I don't know where the disconnection was, but [00:04:56] definitely changed things for me. And so I took some time to really figure out what did I like. [00:05:06] And because I couldn't figure that out, I really settled on business. And so I got my bachelor's [00:05:11] in business and was like, okay, I'll figure out the rest later. I've always saw people, you know, [00:05:19] who did like computer science and, you know, technology related courses, but it never, I've [00:05:26] never found it appealing because I never really saw people who look like me in those spaces. And [00:05:33] it just didn't seem exciting because even though I'm like introverted, I'm also like a people person. [00:05:39] And, and so I didn't see that kind of representation. So I just kind of turned away from that as an option. [00:05:45] I did go on to get my master's in international business from Nova Southeastern University. And [00:05:54] this was what I was doing my study abroad. I, you know, worked in Shanghai, China for three months, [00:06:01] doing all types of things, corporate responsibility, just working with different [00:06:11] government, government, government initiatives. And I also, the following year did Sydney, Australia. [00:06:20] And so I was so convinced that I would probably end up somewhere abroad doing something, you know, [00:06:25] international business related. But then I came back to the States and relocated to Atlanta with my [00:06:34] college sweetheart at the time, who had aspirations to become a chiropractor and marry me at the same [00:06:41] time. So I relocated to Atlanta. I am on the journey feeling like I have what I want to do with [00:06:50] my future. And also as a millennial, it was a time where job opportunities just, it was not what we [00:06:58] thought it would be when we graduated. So there was that piece of it. And then I had a peer mentor, [00:07:04] who at the time, she was a consultant for a boutique consulting firm called Sonera. I think now they're [00:07:14] called Focal Point Data. And she said to me, hey, have you ever heard of data privacy? And I said, no, [00:07:23] I don't really know what that is. And so she started to share some resources with me. I learned about the IAPP, [00:07:30] went there, did some networking. And she told me, hey, if you want to transition, I can help you get an [00:07:36] internship with my consulting firm. And so I quit my job, which I totally hated. I was doing some banking related [00:07:44] work. And I quit my full time job and actually ended up having to move to Miami, Florida, formally [00:07:52] in it for four months to take a four month internship. And so there was when the journey really truly [00:07:59] began. I started learning about all of these different regs like HIPAA, at the time, Safe Harbor, [00:08:07] how to do privacy risk assessments, how to write policies and training and awareness. So there were [00:08:15] like all of these really basic foundational things that I started to learn. And, you know, I wanted to [00:08:27] move back to Atlanta at the end of the internship. So I didn't get an opportunity to work with them full [00:08:32] time. But that experience was just enough experience that I needed to attract all of the big four [00:08:39] consulting firms. And so I then took an opportunity to work with Deloitte. And surprisingly, Deloitte had [00:08:47] this amazing portfolio of services that they provided, in which privacy fell under their cybersecurity [00:08:56] umbrella. And so that really kind of threw me into the cybersecurity side of things. And so my very first [00:09:05] project, I was asked to write the system security plan, I had no idea what I was doing. It was this [00:09:12] massive document. And it was like both like in a doc, and there was like a spreadsheet. And there were [00:09:19] like all these different artifacts that, you know, kind of attached to all of it. And I learned about NIST [00:09:27] 853. And it was like all of the security domains. And it was very intimidating. But nevertheless, I [00:09:34] stepped up to the challenge. And I completely kind of knocked the ball out of the park for my first [00:09:42] project. And I ended up doing so good with that project that the partner would not let me go, [00:09:48] literally. He kept me on all of his projects, doing similar work, and which created an opportunity for [00:09:55] me to get really good at it. And that was really my introduction to security, which was, I found to [00:10:04] be an easy introduction, because it required me to meet with so many stakeholders to understand how [00:10:11] the business was meeting some of these very baseline security requirements. And I found it so [00:10:19] fascinating. I learned about so many tools and technology. And that really sparked an interest [00:10:26] and passion in security for me. And then I had an opportunity to create these CISO labs. You know, [00:10:34] CISO labs are when, you know, we would bring in our top CISO clients. And I would literally do like [00:10:41] the strategic planning and really understand how organizations build or kind of like create what [00:10:49] you know, their security posture, you know, what their maturity levels were, and understanding what [00:10:54] they cared about, what the stakeholders cared about as well for the organization. And then I just really [00:11:00] loved it. At that point, I knew that's exactly where I wanted to be. So that was my sweet spot. [00:11:07] So I said to myself, hey, I want to make sure I'm credentialed in this thing that, you know, when I meet [00:11:14] with clients, when I meet with people, I know what I'm talking about. And so I started looking into, [00:11:19] opportunities to educate myself. And I applied to Brown University, they have a master's of [00:11:26] cybersecurity program. And so I did two and a half years going through that program, they had a [00:11:33] residential session, it was structured perfectly. And I had the opportunity to really build on the [00:11:39] working knowledge that I was getting in consulting. And then after that, I wanted to do some industry [00:11:46] work. And so I ended up having an opportunity to work with Nike, which was very exciting. It was just [00:11:55] amazing to just learn everything I could. I was mostly on the privacy side of the house while I was there. [00:12:04] But I really, really enjoyed how closely privacy and security work together. And that kind of [00:12:12] environment, how we kind of tag team meetings, and it was just so, you know, very interesting and very [00:12:19] rewarding to build those kind of relationships with our stakeholders partnering that way. So that was also [00:12:26] a great experience for me. And during my time at Nike, I became a mom. And so that also was an interesting [00:12:37] time, right? I really felt like I was getting to the height of my career. And then motherhood [00:12:44] unexpectedly came into the picture, which I absolutely, I'm so grateful for, and I'm better for it. [00:12:50] But it did have me to take a bit of a pause, right? Because in those roles, I was traveling a ton. [00:12:58] And I couldn't really travel as much as I was before. So I came back to Atlanta, and I had another [00:13:04] great opportunity to work as a security architect at Georgia Technology Research Institute. And if many [00:13:12] of you are not aware, it's a component of Georgia Tech University. They function very much like [00:13:20] a small consulting arm at the university, solving a lot of, you know, federal and state [00:13:27] problems, right? And so I had an opportunity to work along very smart people doing very interesting [00:13:35] work. And that was my first introduction to the cloud, right? And then I fell in love with that. [00:13:41] And after doing some of that work, Google comes knocking at my door. And I said, okay, this seems [00:13:51] very interesting. And I was even more excited because I knew it was an opportunity for me to [00:13:57] stay here in Atlanta. With being a mother, I did not want to have to, you know, a new mom, [00:14:03] fairly new mom, I didn't want to have to relocate so quickly. So now I am an engineer at Google doing [00:14:11] a number of things. And of course, we all know when the entire world shut down in 2020. [00:14:19] We were all working from home remotely. And while I always knew that as a Black woman [00:14:26] working in this space, I kind of got comfortable with the idea that I would always be the only woman [00:14:32] in the room or the only, you know, minority, you know, all the way around, really. And but doing [00:14:40] those video meetings, it was just really like in my face that, wow, I really am the only one in the [00:14:47] room. And so I just wanted to do something about that. So I created Black Girls in Cyber. It started [00:14:52] off as Facebook series. And it just really grew into something so beautiful that I now get to share [00:15:01] with other board members. And so, you know, my nine to five is Google. And outside of work, [00:15:08] I do Black Girls in Cyber. And of course, as a mom and wife. And so I'm really enjoying [00:15:13] the season that I'm in. And my journey has just been very rewarding along the way. [00:15:19] So I'll stop there. That was my long, very long intro. [00:15:25] That was awesome. So much to unpack there. So I appreciate you sort of taking us through that. [00:15:34] And I can definitely appreciate the sort of sentiment around being the only minority, [00:15:42] maybe not being the only woman, because that's not what I am. But I do recognize being the only [00:15:47] minority in a room. So I can definitely relate to that. So Octavia, I'll pass it over to you. [00:15:55] And let's keep this conversation going. [00:15:59] Absolutely. Hey, so thanks for the story, Talia. I'm really, really interested. And I have an unfair [00:16:06] advantage in this situation. So I'm not going to utilize my advantage. But I just really want you [00:16:13] to dig in a little bit in how Black Girls in Cyber went from just Facebook and just, you know, you kind [00:16:21] of interviewing your friends to what it is now. And could you explain a little bit on what exactly [00:16:28] it is now? [00:16:31] Yes. Wow. So let's see. And I also see Zanette on the call. She's also on the board. So I'm really happy [00:16:38] that she's here. But so to add on Black Girls in Cyber, in 2020, I started the Facebook Live series. [00:16:47] And I said, hey, you know, let me invite four amazing Black women in my circle to just share [00:16:53] their journey into security. Because one of the things that I immediately realized is that people [00:17:00] didn't really know what I do. And it was actually really hard to explain, you know, to someone who was [00:17:06] not in the space. So I was like, okay, let me, you know, let's create some more awareness around [00:17:13] what this is. And the best way to do that was to invite different people to show just how different [00:17:21] it can be. And so I, you know, I thought that was the easiest way to do it. And so we got a lot of [00:17:28] a lot of interests on the Facebook Lives. It was so many questions. And I, you know, I'm like, okay, [00:17:38] let's let me try and do some mentorship, right, so that I can address all of these questions. [00:17:45] Turns out the volume was so much, it was really overwhelming. And I almost became discouraged, [00:17:54] because I was like, there's no way I can help this many people or answer some all of these questions, [00:18:00] right. And so in 2021, I did, you guys may have heard of Share the Mic and Cyber, led by Camille [00:18:08] Stewart, who's also, she works at Google within security and Lauren, who works for the Harvard [00:18:20] Belfer Center. And so they create this amazing campaign where black security professionals will [00:18:29] partner with allies, and they will amplify our voices across their social media platform. [00:18:35] And so my ally said to me, hey, you know, why don't you just, you know, create a nonprofit [00:18:40] organization, you're already doing the work, you can get more support if you create a legitimate [00:18:47] organization. And so I never really liked the idea of creating a nonprofit organization. [00:18:54] It just seemed like so much work, and work I did not think I had the time for. But having his guidance, [00:19:01] and just really having him remove some of that, those barriers, or like my, my thoughts about what it [00:19:10] would be, that I found that very helpful. And he just kind of coached me on it. And then I partnered [00:19:16] with women who had similar organizations, or who were doing similar things to get their input and [00:19:24] support. And I went ahead and started gathering folks who I thought would be great to join the board. [00:19:31] I went ahead and applied for our 501c3 status. And so we got that in June. And then we really got the [00:19:41] ball rolling. We, I think we, the September, we ended up launching our inaugural cohort, right, [00:19:48] for security, where we bring in 10 different women of color. And for a seven month period, [00:19:57] they are partnered with a mentor, who is already working in the security space. We received many [00:20:04] donations to sponsor the resources that they needed. So whether they were using TriHackMe, [00:20:12] we purchased their CompTIA Security Plus exam vouchers. And we do a lot of strategic partnerships [00:20:19] with organizations like INE or Cloud Academy to get them hands on access to build your learning, [00:20:28] and also working on strategic partnerships to help our fellows land internships or full time employment [00:20:38] opportunities. And the security track is just one aspect of it. We are launching our inaugural privacy [00:20:46] track as well. And hopefully everything worked out with the partner that we are anticipating to help us [00:20:53] launch that. And then in the future, we hope to open up a path for product management in software, [00:21:00] software engineering. And we are doing really well, we're growing very quickly, we have a lot of support. [00:21:07] I could not be happier that this thing that I envisioned and feeling this, you know, disappointed that I [00:21:13] would not be able to help as many people as I would like to. And now it's just something so beautiful, [00:21:18] for example, with so many partners and allies who's working together to solve for the security talent gap and while also [00:21:26] addressing the diversity issue as well. So it's a great space to ban. [00:21:34] Awesome. Thanks, Talia. I'm gonna pass it over to Anil. [00:21:39] Thanks, Octavia. Talia, one of the great things you mentioned, [00:21:43] just talking about your origin story was the fact that you had a lot of international experiences, [00:21:48] and open the doors for that path to looking at security and privacy. [00:21:54] Tell us about some of that exposure that you had early on that helped shape and mold where [00:22:00] you wanted to go and also conveying that to folks you come across, whether it's Black [00:22:06] Girls on Cyber or others who are looking for guidance in that path. [00:22:11] Yes. [00:22:11] So my international experience, funny enough, I felt when I started to pursue the world [00:22:19] of security that my study abroad programs, they were not tailored to security or privacy [00:22:26] or anything really in that realm. [00:22:29] And so I didn't understand the value that it would have added in my interviews. [00:22:35] But surprisingly enough, when I interviewed, especially earlier on for my opportunity [00:22:43] with Deloitte, they were very interested in a lot of the study abroad experiences that [00:22:50] I had. [00:22:51] Just being able to put yourself in an environment where English isn't the first language, right? [00:23:02] So that was one. [00:23:04] And learning how to really navigate. [00:23:06] And also, I'm the kind of person when I travel, I like to really get a feel of the culture. [00:23:13] I love to really learn and understand different cultures. [00:23:18] And maybe that's because I was born in another country. [00:23:22] But I really enjoyed that. [00:23:24] And I think it builds character. [00:23:26] There's a lot of soft skills that comes from these type of experiences. [00:23:31] Learning how to respect differences and how to value different input and thoughts and contributions. [00:23:41] And I think that built my confidence level as well. [00:23:44] It made me feel like I could talk to anybody. [00:23:47] Because I learned so much about myself and those experiences and the relationships. [00:23:54] It actually was one of the key opportunities that helped me to get the self-awareness around [00:24:04] my ability to build and maintain relationships with almost anybody. [00:24:10] That was my initial introduction to that. [00:24:13] And it just made me comfortable. [00:24:16] I'm very much like a people person, especially if I have an opportunity to get someone in an intimate [00:24:21] setting. [00:24:22] I really like to get to know people. [00:24:25] And so that always works to my advantage. [00:24:27] And so I think taking that experience and bringing it over to the world of security is what has helped me to be successful on the job. [00:24:35] Because I don't know what everyone on this call, what your role looks like on the day, you know, from day to day. [00:24:44] But I'm required to work with a lot of different stakeholders who have different values or they have different levels of focus. [00:24:51] And being able to navigate some of that has really worked to my advantage when it comes to accomplishing some of the tasks that I have at hand. [00:25:00] So I would say that's how all of that kind of worked together for me. [00:25:06] Oh, that's great. [00:25:07] Thanks for sharing that. [00:25:08] I think we share similar experiences as I, you know, I got engaged with a lot of heavy international work early on. [00:25:15] And that helped shape my perspective. [00:25:18] So thanks for sharing. [00:25:19] And I think that's something that you typically wouldn't get early on or in general folks who go the cyber path. [00:25:26] So it's a privacy path because you get that view of how to approach not only the issue, but people. [00:25:32] So thanks for that. [00:25:33] On to you, Katie. [00:25:36] Yeah, thank you. [00:25:37] And it's interesting that you asked that question, I know, because I was honing in on that. [00:25:43] And I have a follow-up question, but my background is interesting in that way, too. [00:25:50] And just that early on, the study abroad piece. [00:25:53] I wasn't a student. [00:25:54] I was a foreign aid worker. [00:25:55] But for me, bringing that cultural experience and being able to put yourself in an environment where English isn't your... [00:26:02] I remember having whole conversations with people and really having to understand body language and developing the soft skills that you described. [00:26:12] And the question I was going to ask, I added that piece because I also noticed that you created CISO labs when you were during your time at Deloitte. [00:26:22] I have always appreciated those experiences. [00:26:25] And when you shared a little bit more about your foreign experience, I understood why you were probably so successful at it. [00:26:32] But those kind of environments for me have been such a benefit in my career. [00:26:37] I'd love to understand from you, it sounds like they were really successful for you during your time there. [00:26:44] In running those same type of panels or roundtables on a fairly regular basis, I'd love to understand a little bit more from you on how are you able to moderate an event like that [00:26:57] and really get to the deep understanding of where their security posture is and what they care about. [00:27:03] I would love to get a little bit more advice on how to create an agenda or an environment that you're really getting the information that you need to be able to bring back to the industry. [00:27:15] Yeah, no, that's a great question. [00:27:18] I think for me, you know, in client services and by the way, this is not speaking on behalf of any organization. [00:27:28] These are just my thoughts, my opinions and beliefs from my personal experience. [00:27:34] So I, you know, usually when you're in consulting, you're given this project and you know that it's really sales, right? [00:27:44] You always want to get more work and you go in with this frame of mind that, you know, you want to kind of find what's wrong so you can sell to it, right? [00:27:57] And so that can often come off very, not very pleasant, right? [00:28:01] Because you want to be able to speak to what the real need is. [00:28:06] And I think for me, having the perspective of not just doing the, what most would say grunt work and having an opportunity to see what happens on the strategic side of the house really changed how I approached all of my projects going forward. [00:28:24] Because especially as a CISO, I realized that you have so many stakeholders that have different priorities, you know, in the business. [00:28:36] And sometimes they don't understand how your priority plays into theirs. [00:28:42] And that was like the consistent theme that we realized. [00:28:47] So taking the approach of, you know, creating whatever framework that, you know, works for, you know, different organizations and really taking the time to walk through these different domains, you know, that you consider a priority in the security space. [00:29:07] And learning about the security posture and really taking the time to create a more inclusive environment where, whether it's legal, your chief privacy officer, finance, that's a big one. [00:29:22] The CFO, like all of these different stakeholders, giving them a seat at the table to really see how this really affects everyone's bottom line. [00:29:32] I think that was the bigger value and understanding that it was a very big relationship piece of it. [00:29:39] You know, a lot of times the challenge was the communication, like how you customize your messaging to speak the language of the other person. [00:29:49] And so that was another thing that stuck out to be as a consistent theme for a lot of CISOs. [00:29:54] And how do you get the buy-in? [00:29:56] How do you get the funding that you need? [00:29:58] Especially, you know, talent was always a big piece, right? [00:30:02] Not being able to retain your people that you need to do with the jobs that you need them to do because, you know, you're not able to maybe promote or, you know, give all these different incentives that are needed in this space. [00:30:13] And so I think creating a much more vulnerable space for us to tackle all of that and to really talk strategy, it just kind of changed. [00:30:25] It completely shifted the mindset and realized that it was really a collective effort for the entire organization versus just my work versus yours, right? [00:30:35] My priorities versus yours. [00:30:36] So I think that was the bigger value for me. [00:30:40] So it changes the tone when I approach my stakeholders if they have something I need or if I need their buy-in on something to push it forward. [00:30:48] I really try to see how they can feel valued in a part of the process and understand how my work impact theirs in a very positive way. [00:31:00] But also being honest about how it can hurt, you know, all of us if, you know, I don't get the buying I need. [00:31:07] So, yeah, and it just gave me a different level of respect when I went and met with clients because now I understood that I can't just sell to one person. [00:31:17] I'm really selling to many people. [00:31:20] And so to take the approach where, you know, I present these different, you know, output, like whatever the strategy is in a way where it translates over to everyone else. [00:31:37] Yeah, I appreciate that. [00:31:38] And I love, too, that you had said you had a lot of success in bringing privacy and security together and working on projects. [00:31:44] And that's something that I think all of us run into in a fair amount of our time. [00:31:50] So I appreciate that as well. [00:31:52] And do you have anything extra to share on the privacy security piece working together? [00:31:58] Well, I just think, you know, your stakeholders are happier because a lot of times we appear to be blockers for whatever it is they're trying to do. [00:32:07] And to be honest, you know, most times, whether it's like marketing or whatever division, they're helping to generate income, right, to the business. [00:32:17] And so I really think if security and privacy have a more unified front, it's less time that they have to spend. [00:32:26] It's less meetings that they have to spend with us. [00:32:29] You know, so I think it's good if we can partner sometimes and attend meetings together, for example, or share information so that we're not bombarding different teams with similar questions or meetings that can be beneficial to both security and privacy. [00:32:45] I think that's usually the bigger benefit that I see working closely with privacy and security. [00:32:53] It's like getting the business and different stakeholders to be more receptive of the goals that we're trying to achieve. [00:33:00] I appreciate that. [00:33:02] Yeah, for sure. [00:33:02] You know how in 80s movies, there was always that slow clap at the end? [00:33:07] That's what I'm doing right now. [00:33:08] That slow clap. [00:33:10] No, that's amazing. [00:33:11] She does not know what you're talking about. [00:33:12] I know, I'm like, she's a millennial, but don't they watch them still? [00:33:17] I don't. [00:33:18] Come on. [00:33:20] Thank you. [00:33:22] Thank you. [00:33:22] Yeah. [00:33:23] So with it, no, I just really, I celebrate that. [00:33:26] That's how people who are Gen Xers, that's how we celebrate. [00:33:30] Nice slow clap. [00:33:31] So no, thank you for that. [00:33:32] It's encouraging. [00:33:33] And I really appreciate your perspective here. [00:33:36] So with that, I don't know who wants to do the room reset. [00:33:39] I don't know, Octavia or Tomas. [00:33:41] I think we passed it back over to Tomas. [00:33:43] Okay, Tomas. [00:33:45] Over to you, sir. [00:33:45] We call it a golf clap. [00:33:47] We don't know that it's in the 80s, but we just call it a golf clap. [00:33:50] Well, that's the equivalent of my dad joke. [00:33:53] And by the way, I presented my entire company yesterday, Tomas, and I delivered one of the best dad jokes ever. [00:33:59] And no one laughed until I said, wow, that didn't really land. [00:34:03] Hey, don't fall into the sauce. [00:34:05] I'm out. [00:34:06] I mean, he rubbed off on me, I guess. [00:34:09] I don't know. [00:34:10] It just, it snuck its way into my, my all company presentation. [00:34:16] Man. [00:34:17] I have no idea what you all are talking about. [00:34:21] I don't even know about those 80 movies. [00:34:24] Talia, I have no idea what they're talking about. [00:34:26] Trust me. [00:34:26] Look, so just a very, very quick room reset because we do want to maximize the time with Talia and get audience sort of participation. [00:34:35] So if you do have a question or anything you want to sort of share, feel free to raise your hand. [00:34:40] We'll bring you up one by one and we'll let you ask your question of Talia. [00:34:44] If you are new to our Clubhouse chat, this is our weekly Fireside chat. [00:34:48] We do this every single Wednesday between 8 p.m. Eastern time and about 9.30 p.m. Eastern time or so. [00:34:53] So if you're new to our Fireside chat group, there's on the top left of your screen where it says Fireside chat. [00:34:59] There's a little green Monopoly house. [00:35:00] Click that little green house and you can join the club and see who's up next, who's up for next week. [00:35:05] And you can actually listen to the play, playback from prior sessions that you may have missed, which have been really great conversations. [00:35:11] I do see somebody new in the audience with a little celebratory or party hat walking to Clubhouse. [00:35:18] If you do have a question and you want to jump up on stage, you can use the raise hand option and we'll bring you up. [00:35:24] Or you can chat in the actual chat and ask a question. [00:35:28] So Talia, there was a question in the chat. [00:35:30] I know it was answered, but I want other folks just in case they did not see it. [00:35:34] I want them to be able to hear it from you. [00:35:37] So the question was, how can they join Black Girls in Cyber? [00:35:44] How can somebody join Black Girls in Cyber? [00:35:46] Well, that's great. [00:35:47] So you can, depending on how you want to join, whether it's as a partner, a volunteer, or if you're trying to apply to one of our programs, [00:36:00] we have that annually from March to October. [00:36:06] So I would say kind of, we have our website, blackgirlsinciber.com. [00:36:11] You can subscribe to our mailing list. [00:36:14] We are also on all social media platforms, or at least the ones that I'm on, which is Instagram, [00:36:24] at Black Girls in Cyber, Twitter, Black Girls in Cib, because, you know, we couldn't add the ER. [00:36:30] Twitter has a cutoff. [00:36:32] And then Facebook, and the other one is LinkedIn. [00:36:35] So we're on those. [00:36:37] And we also have a Facebook group with over a thousand women, and we're growing. [00:36:44] So you can definitely join if you want to be a part of the community. [00:36:50] If you are interested in partnership, you can send an email to partnerships at blackgirlsinciber.com. [00:36:58] And if you would like to volunteer, you can definitely visit our website and click on the link to volunteer and then submit a form. [00:37:14] Sounds good. [00:37:15] Thank you for that, Tali. [00:37:16] Tali, one other question. [00:37:17] Is it only open to women, or do you have allies as well? [00:37:20] Oh, yes. [00:37:21] We have many allies. [00:37:25] You know, we are creating this space to help increase, you know, the diversity and bring more women of color into this space. [00:37:37] But we work with so many different partners and allies who, whether it's, you know, joining our executive committee that provides advisory guidance to the board or volunteering your time. [00:37:53] We have a number of events throughout the year, and we are always looking for speakers. [00:37:59] We're currently planning for our first conference. [00:38:03] And so we are always looking for people who can host workshops, do some red teaming stuff, right? [00:38:11] Get more hands on. [00:38:13] And so if you or anyone you know would be interested in giving their time back in this very meaningful way, definitely shoot over an email to partnerships at blackgirlsinciber.com, and we'll get you plugged in. [00:38:28] And also the website. [00:38:32] Awesome. [00:38:33] Awesome. [00:38:33] Awesome. [00:38:34] Awesome. [00:38:34] All right. [00:38:35] We got some folks in the audience that popped up on stage. [00:38:38] Jennifer, over to you. [00:38:40] Anything you want to ask Tali? [00:38:41] Yeah, thanks, Tomas. [00:38:44] Great seeing everybody in this weekly room. [00:38:45] Talia, what an amazing background and set of, like, ongoing accomplishments. [00:38:51] I just love the way you presented all that. [00:38:53] Two things. [00:38:53] One, I'm definitely going to go check out. [00:38:55] I'm a privacy attorney. [00:38:56] I've been doing this for, like, 25 years, so I understand a lot of the things you've described, and I'll also go check out mentoring opportunities. [00:39:03] And then what I wanted to ask you about is in your dealing with, you said that you partner, you know, you coordinate with privacy and the security groups. [00:39:11] When you're working with the external clients or the other business divisions to try and come at them at least, you know, once. [00:39:16] You're not inundating them with a joint message. [00:39:19] And I find from an attorney, like, of course, you brought up marketing who's, like, the wild, wild west and will not be reined in. [00:39:26] But do you also find, I think you said it, like, a few, you know, provisions before that about, you know, really working with the business. [00:39:34] Like, what are their concerns and needs? [00:39:36] And so do you find that you're able to partner those groups and sort of, I'd say, pragmatically come, you know, adopt that pragmatic approach? [00:39:45] Do you see more companies or where you are a more pragmatic approach in how all of those groups and requirements work together? [00:39:54] Like, versus legal coming in saying no or that, you know, black hole of it's not going to happen or security versus working with their needs and the possible risks. [00:40:03] You know, are you guys willing to assume this if this happens or here's what's going to happen if you don't do this? [00:40:08] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sorry. [00:40:12] What trends are you seeing is, I think, what I'm asking there? [00:40:14] Because I'm guessing that you do approach it that way. [00:40:16] Yeah. You know, what I'm also, you know, noticing, Jennifer, is that it varies across industry as well. [00:40:24] The culture is different in different industries. [00:40:27] But you're right. [00:40:29] You know, a lot of time legal, you know, is like, no, you can't do this. [00:40:33] And I think this is where the silo piece of it, I think, is really huge. [00:40:42] You know, I think that if there's more education and more transparency around the work that we are doing, [00:40:53] I find that it becomes easier to encourage that collaboration factor. [00:41:02] And also the early engagement piece, which can be hard, right? [00:41:07] And it'll depend on what your consumer product is or services. [00:41:14] But I think the earlier that you can get engaged in whatever ideas a team is brainstorming or whatever thoughts. [00:41:26] So I don't know if maybe creating some kind of, I don't want to say committee because I don't want it to sound that official, [00:41:34] but just creating opportunities where different teams can share what their ideas are, different things that they're working on, [00:41:42] so that you can have that early engagement piece to eliminate sounding like a barrier. [00:41:49] And what I realized in creating opportunities for that is you educate the business in a very less intimidating way, right? [00:41:59] Especially for you as an attorney, I can almost imagine because I know it's like, you know, legal says no, we can't do it. [00:42:07] You know, very authoritative in a sense. [00:42:10] But I think just really understanding that you really want to help the teams do what they need to do by just getting ahead of it. [00:42:18] I find that approach to be very helpful. [00:42:22] But you will have those barriers. [00:42:26] I think having a very good governance structure within the org, that helps as well, because then you have some visibility. [00:42:36] You're more, you know, open to sharing more and collaboration. [00:42:43] And so I find that to be the best way to work with different teams. [00:42:52] But I think it will always be a challenge, right? [00:42:55] Because, you know, I think just the nature of the workforce is you to be focused on what you have to do. [00:43:01] Legal have, you know, your set of requirements and then security have their set of requirements. [00:43:05] And private is like, well, we must do this, you know. [00:43:08] And it just can be a lot for the business, right, when you think about it. [00:43:12] So I think the more that we can collaborate and work together and just, you know, really do a lot of early engagement and education, I think that's a direction that most orgs should probably go. [00:43:25] Yeah. [00:43:26] And what we're seeing. [00:43:26] 100% totally agree with every point you're bringing up. [00:43:30] And it's actually a more progressive organizations that are doing it. [00:43:33] As you said, the different industries and different regulatory, like, you know, if you're in the medical space, depending, or in the, you know, insurance space or something, they're going to be a lot, I would guess, less advanced with technology. [00:43:46] I tend to be a product attorney. [00:43:48] So I embed myself within the product lifecycle so that we're on it early because, in addition, as you said, there's varying stakeholders. [00:43:55] And so what, who are the stakeholders? [00:43:57] You've got to, you know, really actually identify that. [00:43:59] It's not always so obvious. [00:44:00] I mean, you can't be, I think that legal is the department of no is kind of an antiquated approach. [00:44:06] You really need to work with them because, and you will know this more because you're on the more even techie side than I am, but it's, you know, how are we going to solve this problem? [00:44:14] Like, I don't, I, I have a no, we can't do this, but it's, the answer isn't ever going to be, if they go back and say legal says no, I don't want that to be the answer. [00:44:22] I want to be legal says we can't do it because this will happen because we can work together once we understand what the goal is and try and get there another way. [00:44:32] So it's, it's sort of working together and hopefully not coming in with just a routine checklist. [00:44:36] You miss, you get this or you don't because that's too siloed. [00:44:40] Yeah. [00:44:41] And so love your approaches and love where you're going with this. [00:44:43] I'm just, I'm hoping that it becomes more of the, the trend in where we're going versus the siloed must haves without really looking at the big picture and what the goals are, et cetera. [00:44:58] Yeah, absolutely. [00:44:59] I hope so too. [00:45:01] I think we'll, you know, almost have to be forced to, to, to mean in that direction in order for us to get our work done. [00:45:09] Thanks, Jennifer. [00:45:14] Thanks for popping up on stage and asking a question. [00:45:19] Ryan, over to you. [00:45:22] Hi, nice to meet you. [00:45:23] Thanks so much for sharing your, like, I thought, by the way, your origin story was like perfect amount of detail. [00:45:30] So that said, I tend to like ask a fun question, I think, I hope. [00:45:35] And then I have a more serious question. [00:45:37] And so my question for you, our questions is that you mentioned you have a daughter and I would just love to know, especially between your career and this nonprofit that's amazing, what or how you share and incorporate that with your daughter. [00:45:51] And then you mentioned how you went to school for these business degrees, but are essentially in cyber. [00:45:58] I know you did say something about credentialing. [00:46:00] So this isn't specific to that, but I'm just curious, like, what were your thoughts or what, what, how, how did you feel like, I know you said your degree came in handy, but did you ever feel like your degree not being cyber hurt you? [00:46:12] And if you could do it all over again, maybe like, would you, I asked that because I did, I did the air force and then I went into cyber and I've been doing it for 10 years, but I actually just completed my degree. [00:46:22] So I was curious, kind of just haven't really had the opportunity to ask someone that before. [00:46:28] Thanks. [00:46:29] Yeah, no worries. [00:46:30] Thank you for, for those questions. [00:46:33] Well, I'll answer your first one, you know, surrounding my, my daughter and how I kind of make it work. [00:46:42] Honestly, so with my nonprofit organization, Black Girls in Cyber, I, I can honestly say I have a great team of people who care about the goals and the mission. [00:46:52] And so what you'll see usually with any great leader, they usually have a great team. [00:46:59] I think it's important. [00:47:02] And this is both, you know, professionally, like on my day to day job, as well as like my nonprofit organization. [00:47:10] People like to kind of understand how they're providing value and just kind of creating space for them to own their thing and just do their thing. [00:47:23] Like, you know, no micromanaging or whatnot. [00:47:25] And so that's really how function with my nonprofit is here's the goal. [00:47:30] Here's the mission. [00:47:31] Here is kind of like how things are structured. [00:47:33] And then I have to trust these people to, to go do what they say they're going to do. [00:47:38] And so that has worked out very well for me with helping me to be able to, to manage being in both spaces and also in the, like on the job, which can be very demanding. [00:47:53] I've actually learned how to create boundaries at work. [00:47:56] So even with my schedule, I, you know, do not schedule time with me before 10 a.m. [00:48:03] because I'll be coming back home from dropping off my daughter to school. [00:48:07] Right. And then I have pickups. [00:48:09] So I have a hard stop in the evenings as well. [00:48:13] And of course, you know, with me being married, I have a partnership with my husband. [00:48:16] So we tag team on different days. [00:48:18] Right. So some days that may work later than others. [00:48:22] So I think creating those boundaries and over communicating that has really created an opportunity for me to be able to have that management. [00:48:33] And then also building trust with my team. [00:48:36] Like I'm going to do what I say I'm going to do. [00:48:37] So no one really questions me when I say, OK, I can't meet at this time or if I manage my calendar a certain way because it doesn't impact my work. [00:48:46] So having that trust with my team also helps a lot. [00:48:52] So that's kind of how I've been juggling that as well. [00:48:55] But and I do not work weekends like I just don't work weekends, which is so funny because before a mom, before I became a mother, I would work crazy hours like nonstop all the time, especially growing up in the consulting world. [00:49:09] It's just who you become. [00:49:10] But when I realized how quickly my my daughter was growing and COVID really changed a lot of perspective, I think, for a lot of us when we realized how short this life really is. [00:49:22] And so my weekends are with my family, you know, my evenings and my weekends are with my family. [00:49:28] So I'm pretty firm on those things. [00:49:31] When I'm at work, I'm at work and I give it my 110 percent. [00:49:35] When I'm home, I'm at home and I give that my 110 percent. [00:49:38] And so that's just kind of how I spend my time to make it all work. [00:49:44] And then for the second part of your question, I'm trying to remember, OK, the credential piece. [00:49:51] Yes. So I actually have mixed feelings around getting my master's in cybersecurity. [00:49:57] It took me so long to figure out what I wanted to do that. [00:50:05] I almost wish I knew that I would end up here. [00:50:09] Otherwise, I wouldn't have wasted my you know, well, I won't say wasted. [00:50:13] Right. Because everything I did brought me here. [00:50:14] But, man, I wish I knew so I could have saved a lot of money on, you know, education. [00:50:20] But with getting my master's in cybersecurity, unfortunately, especially for me as a minority, I have to validate that I know what I know. [00:50:32] So even now, like I'm, you know, now looking at certifications. [00:50:36] I got a cloud cert and now I'm studying for the CISSP and, you know, really trying to get these things, even though I do well at my job. [00:50:45] I am respected. [00:50:46] But it's unfortunate that sometimes I need my resume to speak for myself before I enter the room. [00:50:53] And so I think in that way, I found a value in getting these credentials. [00:50:59] But does it really help? [00:51:01] I don't know. [00:51:03] I think my personality and my willingness to learn and my networking, my network is probably the biggest factor in the opportunities that I've had. [00:51:15] Every job, every speaking opportunity, every even with my nonprofit, it's all been based on my relationships. [00:51:24] So I would say that was the biggest factor in my journey and my success over anything else. [00:51:31] Thanks. [00:51:35] I appreciate that. [00:51:36] And really enjoyed hearing all those details. [00:51:39] Yeah, absolutely. [00:51:40] Good luck on your CISSP. [00:51:42] Thank you. [00:51:43] I'm going to need it. [00:51:45] That's an easy test. [00:51:46] Don't worry about it, Talia. [00:51:48] You got it. [00:51:50] Yeah. [00:51:54] Henry, over to you. [00:51:55] Thanks for popping up on stage. [00:51:57] Yes. [00:51:57] Good evening, everyone. [00:51:58] I thank you for having me here. [00:51:59] Talia, great to hear your story. [00:52:01] I really haven't. [00:52:03] I'm kind of like smiling here as I know, you know, having kids and figuring out, you know, work is work and family is family. [00:52:10] And just like you earlier in my career, I was a workaholic. [00:52:13] And once my daughters were born, it was like cold turkey and just said, no, my weekends are for my family. [00:52:21] So that's a great approach to have. [00:52:24] So congrats on that. [00:52:28] Thank you. [00:52:27] As I'm hearing your career evolve. [00:52:33] And obviously, you're now working at Google. [00:52:36] And Google is a large company. [00:52:37] You know, you guys do cloud computing, AI, search engine, and so many other things. [00:52:43] Right. [00:52:43] So I was just curious, Talia, what's it like a day in the life for you at Google? [00:52:50] You know, what's a day look like for you? [00:52:53] I'm sure it's got a lot of, you know, things to traverse and many departments to work with. [00:53:00] Just curious how a day looks like for you, such a large company. [00:53:04] Yeah. [00:53:07] So not to get too detailed, but I think it's very, I think tech in general, you'll find it's very complex, right? [00:53:16] You have all these really smart people that are very innovative in doing all these amazing things. [00:53:24] And for me, that makes it exciting. [00:53:26] All of the possibilities and just the impact that my work can have on billions of people, right? [00:53:35] So, but, you know, at the very core, I think it's just like working at any other organization. [00:53:42] You know, building, well, first it's learning about the business and all the different things that that business cares about. [00:53:49] And then there is also the relationship piece, which I think is, I'll always come back to that because it's like a reoccurring theme. [00:54:00] Just building relationships and understanding what different people are working on and what they care about. [00:54:08] And it can be just working in security in general. [00:54:13] There's always a lot of competing priorities in terms of what you, how you, what you should focus on and when you should focus on that. [00:54:22] So I think it's also a lot of reprioritizing constantly. [00:54:28] So for me, I don't really, like, I know what needs to happen, but I don't really commit to it because I know something else can come up at any minute and I'll need to switch gears. [00:54:39] So just being flexible in that sense and just being very open, I think, has just kind of been kind of like how I move and maneuver in the space in general. [00:54:53] But yeah, I would say that's, that's my, that's my tech experience so far. [00:55:00] Amazing company to work for. [00:55:02] And like I said, you know, it's great to have an opportunity to get your hands in a little bit of everything. [00:55:07] I'm sure, I'm sure you have some upward mobility there as well, right? [00:55:11] You know, like I said, everything is like really relationship, you know, driven and just being able to connect with people who find, you know, the work that they're doing is important. [00:55:23] And if I would like to contribute to that, you know, just like any other place that I've ever worked with, it's, it's pretty much the same in that regard. [00:55:31] Yeah. [00:55:32] Well, that, that's awesome. [00:55:34] And congratulations. [00:55:35] I just, I'll just be quiet now and continue to hear your great stories. [00:55:40] So have a great evening. [00:55:42] Thank you, Talia. [00:55:43] Yeah. [00:55:43] Same here. [00:55:45] Thanks, Henry. [00:55:46] Thanks for popping up on stage. [00:55:48] Christopher, over to you. [00:55:50] Anything you want to ask Talia? [00:55:52] Yeah, actually. [00:55:53] First off, good evening. [00:55:54] And thank you for letting me join. [00:55:55] Believe it or not, though, Ryan actually asked essentially the exact same question I had for the same reasons. [00:56:03] I did eight years active duty in the Air Force, pivoted over to cybersecurity and was curious on, you know, if you could have done things different or pursued perhaps a different educational path and credentialing path, would you have done so? [00:56:17] So you've already answered the question and I was happy to hear your answer on it. [00:56:21] Thank you. [00:56:24] All right. [00:56:25] No worries. [00:56:25] Thanks, Christopher. [00:56:27] Yeah. [00:56:28] Jenny, over to you. [00:56:29] Anything you want to ask Talia? [00:56:31] Hey, Talia. [00:56:34] Great room, as always. [00:56:36] I had a question from the perspective of your project and young women coming into this environment. [00:56:46] And what are your how do you help them kind of navigate some of the pushback that they may get? [00:56:54] Because it is a very male oriented arena. [00:56:58] I mean, I've suffered with that being in risk and governance and law in kind of the cybersecurity field. [00:57:06] And how do you motivate them to kind of look past that and navigate kind of a sometimes difficult environment when you have technology as part of what you do? [00:57:19] Yes, that's a loaded question. [00:57:21] But thank you. [00:57:24] Yeah. [00:57:25] So, you know, I think what I always tell my mentees and this is something that I also keep my mentors around for because there's always like different levels to this, depending on where you are. [00:57:37] The challenges at the very core are the same, but maybe the way you approach them may be different. [00:57:42] But for those who are starting out early, I kind of keep going back to this. [00:57:50] So relationships are a currency for me. [00:57:55] And I try my very best not to piss people off. [00:57:59] But I also own the fact that I am there for a reason. [00:58:02] Like I've had to go through the mansplaining or, you know, someone, you know, had a guy tell me, oh, I'm not going to include you on this meeting because it's to protect you. [00:58:16] And I was just like, what? [00:58:18] Protect me from what? [00:58:19] You know, like that doesn't make any sense. [00:58:21] You know, you just didn't want me in the room. [00:58:24] Right. [00:58:24] And so having to navigate a lot of that is, one, making sure I'm the best at what I do. [00:58:32] Like I got all my I's and crossed all my T's. [00:58:35] And if there is something that I don't know, I'm very honest and open about it. [00:58:39] And I think that builds trust because when I do have something to say or something to contribute, it's more respected. [00:58:47] Because if I don't know, I'm going to tell you I don't know. [00:58:50] And so I've kind of built relationship currency that way. [00:58:54] And in maneuvering trust, if I'm hitting a roadblock with someone who is difficult, it will depend. [00:59:03] Right. [00:59:03] So if this is a place that I love, this is a place where I see where I can add great value, then I may have to be very strategic about the different relationships that I leverage to get over certain challenges. [00:59:17] Right. [00:59:18] But if it's not worth it, I leave. [00:59:21] Like it's just not my battle to fight. [00:59:23] Right. [00:59:23] So I'm very big on that, too. [00:59:26] Like we work in a space where the market is very competitive. [00:59:31] And so if I'm somewhere where, you know, I've done my best, I've given it my all, I've done all the all the right things. [00:59:39] I checked all my boxes. [00:59:40] But this culture is just not going to allow me to thrive and be the best version of myself here. [00:59:48] And I think it's just not going to allow me to do that. [00:59:52] So I think there's like it's twofold. [00:59:55] It just really depends on the culture, what the opportunities are like. [01:00:00] Because sometimes, although the culture is very open and allows you to navigate some of these challenges, there are some cultures that just they don't want to shift. [01:00:09] And so I think it's up to us sometimes to do our due diligence to identify which culture it is and kind of make those decisions, you know, where it makes sense. [01:00:20] And so that's what I've done to encourage folks who are coming in. [01:00:25] Just learn as much as you can, as quickly as you can, and build those trust and relationships. [01:00:32] And really the rest kind of, you know, work itself out. [01:00:35] But I think there will always be different stages depending on your level and where you are in terms of how you navigate some of these challenges. [01:00:44] But I think they'll always be there. [01:00:47] Thank you. [01:00:48] That's terrific. [01:00:49] And best of luck on your project and everything you're doing. [01:00:51] Thank you. [01:00:55] Thanks, Jenny. [01:00:56] Thanks for popping up on stage and asking a question. [01:00:58] Camille, over to you. [01:01:00] Hi, Talia. [01:01:01] It's great to see you on this space. [01:01:04] My name is Camille Bolton, and I'm a 2021 Black Girls in Cyber cohort mentee. [01:01:14] And I'm very proud to say that. [01:01:18] And I have been a part of Black Girls in Cyber since 2020. [01:01:23] And I just wanted to know, what are the future challenges of data privacy and GRC? [01:01:34] Hey, Camille. [01:01:35] I am so happy to see you here. [01:01:38] Camille is doing very well in this space and landed an opportunity. [01:01:43] So happy to see you here. [01:01:46] I think, well, so your question, what are the future challenges? [01:01:51] Well, for data privacy, I think it's, I think it will really just be, I think it depends on the industry probably that you work in. [01:02:01] And so you may view some of these regulatory changes that are coming in will make it very difficult for, how do I put this? [01:02:15] Advertising companies? [01:02:17] Like ad companies? [01:02:18] So I see, I would be interested to see how a lot of organizations will adapt to that. [01:02:27] I think one of the advantages that we have, though, currently is being in the U.S. [01:02:34] I don't think currently there is like a privacy law that is like consistent across the board, you know, for U.S. citizens. [01:02:47] You know, you may see different regs for, you know, state, different industries. [01:02:52] But I think it becomes really frustrating a little bit for business to kind of keep up with all of these regulatory changes. [01:03:00] So I, those are some of the things that I'm like keen to see, especially when you get into like anonymization of data and what that means. [01:03:10] For a lot of organizations who, you know, when you think about, you know, saying you can't de-identify or you can identify a person, but yes, you can. [01:03:23] Because technology is becoming very advanced in that way. [01:03:28] And so seeing how these laws really push organizations in general to make these different changes, I think will be very interesting. [01:03:36] So, yeah, I'm sitting very closely to legal in that regard, just to kind of, you know, stay ahead of how we tackle some of those challenges for consumers in general. [01:03:50] And then for your other question regarding GRC, I think it depends on what end. [01:03:56] I think you will start to see more GRC opportunities. [01:03:59] I think for a few days, I don't think it was the most favorable role for security professionals, but I think we're starting to see a little bit of a trend. [01:04:10] And we're starting to see more like training and awareness around like what GRC is and how organizations should really approach it. [01:04:18] Because for most orgs currently, it's just like compliance, but it's really so much more. [01:04:23] you know and it really should be a very a key investment for a lot of organizations so that [01:04:31] you can really be more strategic with your how you spend your resources and just you know saving [01:04:36] money really you know and just really having a more well-oiled machine running so I think in [01:04:44] terms of job opportunities you will see more of that so I highly encourage people to consider that [01:04:51] as a path and yeah and I think more organizations will get on board with creating better GRC related [01:05:01] programs thank you so much Talia and best of luck to everything thank you thank you so happy to see [01:05:10] you here thanks Camila thanks for popping up on stage and asking your question and I don't know [01:05:16] what you're talking about Talia different states have different privacy laws really no that's not [01:05:21] a thing in the U.S. it's a headache really yeah hopefully we'll figure it out soon trust me I [01:05:32] I know I know that all too well uh so did you thank you for popping up on stage over here [01:05:38] thanks Tomas uh Talia can you talk a little bit about how perhaps attending a historically black [01:05:46] college uh shaped your career uh and how it's helping you now in your current profession [01:05:53] yes hi Sanjay um that's a great question so uh I you know a couple minutes well earlier on in the [01:06:03] in the talk I talked about um me being born in uh Jamaica right um and one thing about black [01:06:12] Caribbean is we grow up with a different frame of mind right um you know like the we we are born into [01:06:22] seeing leaders who look like us so um at the very core we don't feel as inferior right in a lot of [01:06:31] uh cases um we feel very confident we feel like if we do what you're supposed to do you will be [01:06:36] successful now attending uh HBCU really challenged a lot of my thinking as a Caribbean black person and [01:06:45] you know a lot of people will make the assumption like all blacks are the same our experiences are very [01:06:50] different um and attending an HBCU really kind of uh peeled the onion back on a lot of those beliefs that I [01:06:59] had um about us in general and it that level of awareness um I grew a different level of respect [01:07:08] um in um and all of the cultural appreciation and the rigor um and how hard our professors are on us and [01:07:19] just I think that whole cultural experience really helped shaped you know some of the confidence and [01:07:26] um owning who I am right so I feel very confident being black right like so I wear my hair however I [01:07:35] want you know like if if it makes me feel comfortable I show up that way I don't really [01:07:39] you know care who feels any way about it like I'm just me in every aspect of it I bring my full self [01:07:46] right um and I think that HBCU experience have really helped um encourage that you know like I'm [01:07:54] really comfortable in my skin in any setting anywhere that I am and so um I think that has impacted the [01:08:01] way I show up um in in in spaces and you know and it has it makes people more comfortable to be around [01:08:09] me because I'm comfortable you know with who I am and so it helps my relationship so I think in that way [01:08:15] um I'm very appreciative of that experience thank you Talia that is awesome and uh I'll continue to [01:08:24] support your organization it's great and I see that it's helping a lot of people thank you I appreciate [01:08:30] that thanks Sanju thanks for popping up on stage as always and participating uh on our weekly chats uh Ryan [01:08:40] um hi again I actually felt very inspired to ask a new question that might be the new question that [01:08:51] I start asking at these typically I think people will ask what's advice for your younger self and if [01:08:58] you'd like to answer that obviously I won't stop you but what would your advice be for your future self [01:09:03] wow um for my future self I think you're similar in age to me and I just feel like I'm just like man [01:09:15] this girl's done so much like I gotta catch up I'm like like where is she going but I feel like more [01:09:22] about advice like you know obviously the world's your oyster yeah I would say um like just keep doing it [01:09:33] afraid you know like a lot of times I show up and I do a lot of things and people have the assumption [01:09:41] that it was like easy um but I do things even if it's not easy you know like it's it's even if it's [01:09:49] hard even if it's terrifying I'm still gonna I'm gonna over prepare and I'm just gonna show up and I [01:09:53] think um my advice to my future self is just not to forget that you know um and also not to forget to [01:10:00] live and enjoy life um one of the things I've been trying to do is figure out ways where [01:10:07] you know work doesn't feel so much like work right because we spend so much time at work um so I've [01:10:15] I've really been just doing a lot of strategic thinking in terms of making sure I live a very [01:10:21] meaningful life not only with the impact I make with my organizations but just for my personal self [01:10:28] right um so that would be my advice and to keep you know putting myself first and taking care of my [01:10:34] health um that's actually probably the biggest one um health making sure you prioritize your health [01:10:43] because it doesn't matter how hard you work you want to be able to live long enough to to to to enjoy [01:10:50] it and to see everything come to fruition so um that would be one of the advice I would give to my future [01:10:56] yourself as well I appreciate that and I hope I hope you get to remember that on the hard days and [01:11:02] come back at some point and we we cross paths and you get to tell me that you did that all right yeah [01:11:06] more questions thank you I probably need to I probably need to like send myself an email or something [01:11:14] like one of those reminders like send me this in the future oh yeah write write it down right [01:11:20] all right thank you that's a good one yeah no problem [01:11:24] all right thanks for popping up on stage and and asking your question uh Kenneth always good to see [01:11:33] you my friend over to you anything you want to ask Talia [01:11:36] Kenneth just uh if you're having trouble the microphone on the bottom right of your screen you [01:11:45] can click that on your date all right there we go so we so we call me Kenneth now all right Tomas [01:11:51] well I don't I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know [01:11:54] it's like it's like it's like it's like you know what so like so so just a quick backstory [01:12:01] what's the backstory okay so Ken and I Ken and I went to high school together [01:12:06] you just called me Kenneth [01:12:07] uh Kenny oh my goodness hey don't don't put your don't put your government name on your on your [01:12:16] clubhouse if you don't want to talk I don't think oh yeah that's for you Ken that's for you you see [01:12:23] what I'm saying you got the back up all right I see you I got I got so you know Ken Ken's a very [01:12:29] good friend of mine with the high school together we're not gonna talk about any of that stuff [01:12:32] uh but go ahead Ken anything you want to ask we need to ask in every clubhouse we don't have a full [01:12:37] clubhouse on work for my student high school hey no no we'll leave that alone go ahead Ken right well [01:12:43] Talia I'd like to thank you for being a part of this conversation I have so many different thoughts [01:12:48] going through my head um I won't make mention of my affiliations at this moment but my question to [01:12:56] you is when did you first fall in love with cyber security wow that is a good one um so I think [01:13:07] so I had a few moments but I think when I first kind of found my like sweet spot was doing the CISO labs [01:13:22] when I worked in consulting and I think it's because while I find technology you know very [01:13:30] fascinating and solving all of these different uh security problems I think the people aspect of it [01:13:38] is what I find the most rewarding and and if you and if you have an opportunity to not lose that [01:13:45] disconnect like your why like why is this important you know um that human element I think [01:13:52] is is what I enjoy the most and I think it was because I was much younger then too um this was [01:13:59] probably like 10 years ago um when I did this kind of work and then being new to the space [01:14:05] I would see CISOs you know very differently um than I do now and I think having an opportunity [01:14:14] to really sit down and talk strategy with CISOs was really like I was like this is so cool [01:14:22] like I'm literally on the phone and like in face-to-face meetings with CEOs and CFOs of like [01:14:28] top corporations and I think that really made it so real for me to get that I'm like wow these are [01:14:36] real people they just have real problems you know that they're they're trying to solve really important [01:14:41] problems and um being able to be in the room and to be able to have a perspective um and to be able [01:14:49] to contribute to solving those issues and taking the human element in in play um I think that's when [01:14:56] I was like I like it here you know I really like it here um yeah so I would say that's that's when I knew [01:15:03] like I like to create a family like family like family like family like family like family like [01:15:21] but those that come in contact with your program, [01:15:25] Black Girls, is it Black Girls in Cyber? [01:15:28] Black Girls in Cyber, yes. [01:15:30] So, you know, one of the things I thought about was the impression [01:15:36] that I had of people who worked in technology and security, [01:15:41] and how, you know, unfortunately off-putting that was. [01:15:46] It just did not look like a cool job, right? [01:15:49] It did not look very attractive. [01:15:51] So I think the blueprint for me is to get as many amazing women of color [01:15:57] who are, you know, trailing the, you know, who are, what do you call it, [01:16:02] trailblazers in the space, and to really create that awareness, you know, [01:16:09] for minority women and going to find them where they are. [01:16:12] You know, one of the reasons why I think we market more heavily on, [01:16:18] like Instagram and Facebook probably because our target audience, [01:16:26] they may not necessarily be on LinkedIn or Twitter. [01:16:29] They're probably more likely on Facebook and Instagram and maybe TikTok, [01:16:34] but we're not quite there yet. [01:16:36] But so the blueprint is really just to really look at who are we trying to target? [01:16:42] You know, who are we trying to create this awareness from? [01:16:46] And the way we show up, like if you probably go to blackgirlsandcyber.com right now, [01:16:52] our website is so colorful. [01:16:54] It has like so many colors. [01:16:57] And that was very intentional because typically when you think technology or security, [01:17:03] it's like black, you know, very dark, maybe one or two colors and which is fine, [01:17:09] but I'm trying to target a different, you know, audience. [01:17:12] So I think it's a matter of just staying true to that, like who I am. [01:17:17] I don't really change, you know, the clothes that I wear. [01:17:20] I'm very much like a girly girl, right? [01:17:22] So I show up as myself in these spaces and really be the example because, you know, [01:17:30] when there's lack of representation and when there is lack of showing up as yourself, [01:17:36] then it's not as attractive. [01:17:37] But if I'm more relatable, people are seeing women who look like me, [01:17:42] who are regular just like them, then I think that makes this field more attractive [01:17:47] and also creating that level of awareness. [01:17:49] So we have, you know, a huge vision. [01:17:52] And one of the things that we hope to do is to really hold, you know, [01:17:56] our strategic partners who are large corporations accountable [01:18:00] and putting their dollars where their mouth is, right? [01:18:03] So we're building a pipeline. [01:18:04] If you, you know, diversity is a big issue, put your dollars where your mouth is. [01:18:09] Invest your people and your time into this pipeline that you want to recruit from. [01:18:13] So that's some of the stuff that we're working on now is how can we partner together [01:18:18] to solve for your talent issue while also solving for a whole other issue here, right? [01:18:24] And one of the things that I'm so passionate about is a woman of color. [01:18:29] I am a mother. I am a wife. [01:18:32] And working in this space allows me a certain privilege, a certain level of flexibility [01:18:38] and financial resources that I may not get in other more essential working roles. [01:18:46] And we saw that a lot during COVID, right? [01:18:48] We saw who was the most affected. [01:18:51] And so my heart really goes out to a lot of mothers who had to choose between caring for their child [01:18:59] and going into work. And I think you can have both. [01:19:03] And so, you know, I wanted to eliminate that socioeconomic factor for a lot of women of color [01:19:11] who does not have the advantage to do that. [01:19:13] So you can do meaningful work. [01:19:15] There is a space for you here. [01:19:17] And so that's what I'm going to do. [01:19:19] And so that's my mission with Black Girls in Cyber. [01:19:21] And I cannot wait to see where it ends up 10 years from now. [01:19:25] Excellent. And now, if I may, my final question is if you could ask the group, [01:19:34] those of us that are on this fire chat right now, one thing to help you move your agenda, [01:19:41] whether it's personally, professionally, you know, at Google, whether it's with your organization, [01:19:48] what would that one ask be? [01:19:52] One ask? [01:19:54] I would say become a strategic partner or donate your time. [01:20:00] I feel like everyone on this call, you probably have something to give, [01:20:04] whether it's your skills, your time, or your network. [01:20:09] You have access or know someone who would love or be interested in this. [01:20:13] I think that's probably the best thing that you can do is either become a partner yourself [01:20:20] or share us with someone in your network who would love to become a partner. [01:20:25] I think that's, that would be my biggest ask. [01:20:28] Thank you. I look forward to connecting with you offline. [01:20:33] Awesome. Thank you. [01:20:35] Thanks, Kenny. Thanks for popping up on stage and asking your questions. [01:20:41] My friend, um, Talia, I was just looking through my, uh, CISO lab from 2017. [01:20:50] And, uh, I remember going through that experience. It was pretty good. [01:20:55] I didn't know that you, uh, you were one of, you were the creator or one of the creators. [01:20:59] Oh, yeah. Wow. That's really cool. In 2017, I probably was still there. I think. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. [01:21:09] Now I have to go and think back. [01:21:13] Well, you, you weren't, you weren't, uh, I was just looking at the, the result. [01:21:18] I did it in February 2017. Oh, well, February is when I got the results. [01:21:21] I don't remember exactly that I did it, but, um, I was looking at the team that was there and you weren't one of the, one of the members of the team that was with me in New York. [01:21:31] New York. New York. Okay. Yeah. But I did, I did go through it and I do remember it. And it was, uh, it was, it was a good experience. It was actually a pretty good experience. [01:21:42] So I'm not going to plug other, other, uh, consulting companies, uh, programs, but if you do it, if, if you heard what Talia mentioned in the beginning and you piece it together, uh, that CISO's lab is actually a good opportunity. [01:21:55] If you can make the time and whatever it is that it costs to do it, it's actually pretty useful. There's pictures in there. I've got pictures of me standing up with a whole bunch of people around me. [01:22:05] Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I probably wasn't on that one, but yeah, that's really cool. I was still there. So yeah. [01:22:14] Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, uh, I digress. Um, Jennifer, I saw you popped up on stage. Go ahead. [01:22:24] We're like rabbits down here. I think it's Ryan and I to keep popping up and down. Tyler, this has just been amazing. [01:22:30] I just love your approach and where you're going in your history. And, um, it cracks me up cause I think you're still so young to have all this experience, uh, from what I'm reading, but, um, a couple of points you're right on all the privacy laws. [01:22:42] Um, there's there, they vary by state and you get the, you know, international stuff and you've got nothing cohesive across the nation and companies trying to deal with that is the biggest show. [01:22:51] Sorry about that. But anyways, um, it's, it's very problematic. [01:22:55] And then also on the, um, advice to your future self about health, by the time you actually have to like question that it's, it's, it's deep. [01:23:04] So like the many are questioning that jump back on the health bandwagon because that stuff doesn't come back. [01:23:09] So, um, that one, and then, um, lastly on the, uh, we're reaching to your audience where they are to the, to the girls to get them into coding. [01:23:18] I love the idea that you're using colors in the coding because so many people don't know what a lot of industries are, especially anything in tech. [01:23:25] And so for you to make it look like an attractive website and then meet them where they are on Instagram. [01:23:29] Um, I think Tik Tok is going to crush Instagram. [01:23:31] So I would try and ramp that up sooner than later. [01:23:34] And maybe your audience can help you do that. [01:23:35] Um, or your girls that are coding can help you do it because they know that platform. [01:23:39] Right. [01:23:40] Um, I just, I just kudos and all of that because I think I'm, I'm super old school. [01:23:45] Like I'm, um, I come from the graduated in the nineties and we had to wear nylons and skirt suits and pearl earrings, which were probably too big. [01:23:53] Yeah. [01:23:54] That level. [01:23:55] And right now, as you can see from my profile, I've, I've kind of broken out and I have pink hair, but, um, but because I have the confidence. [01:24:00] And so I'm so glad that you have the confidence to bring that much earlier and to push it sooner and earlier. [01:24:05] So that's just awesome. [01:24:06] Thank you. [01:24:07] Yeah. [01:24:08] I've had some really great mentors along the way too. [01:24:11] So I think that has helped a lot. [01:24:14] People matter, those relationships always networking connections and mentors. [01:24:18] Yep. [01:24:19] Including here. [01:24:20] That's awesome. [01:24:22] Um, and, and Tic Tac that's that, uh, breath mint, right? [01:24:27] Is that what that is? [01:24:29] Octavia? [01:24:30] I don't know. [01:24:31] Yeah. [01:24:32] That's exactly what it is. [01:24:33] It's a breath mint. [01:24:34] I have to get that one in. [01:24:36] There are literally cybersecurity things on Tik Tok. [01:24:40] There are security. [01:24:41] There are, there are, it's an uplifter platform. [01:24:44] It is. [01:24:45] She is so not, she is so not serious. [01:24:48] I love that platform. [01:24:50] You can learn. [01:24:51] You just gotta fish through stuff. [01:24:53] Jennifer, don't pay me no mind. [01:24:54] I just was trying to get my dad joking for the day. [01:24:57] Oh, I know. [01:24:58] I know Tomas. [01:24:59] I know you're cooler than you try to act. [01:25:01] I don't know. [01:25:02] I think you've gone too far Jennifer. [01:25:03] I think you've gone too far. [01:25:04] Just come back. [01:25:05] All right. [01:25:06] Let's bring this back to our guest. [01:25:08] Talia. [01:25:09] So look, we're coming to four minutes left in the evening. [01:25:12] I want to be respectful. [01:25:13] Everybody's time. [01:25:14] If anybody has any questions that they do want to ask Talia before we kind of wrap, raise your hand and we'll bring you up on stage. [01:25:20] But if you don't, I will pass it. [01:25:21] I'll tell you, I'll pass it over to you if you want to ask or any of the other mods if you want to ask Talia any questions before I ask her. [01:25:34] The one that Ryan tried to steal earlier. [01:25:37] I heard you, Ryan. [01:25:38] I heard you. [01:25:39] Yeah. [01:25:40] Talia, what has been your biggest impact, right? [01:25:44] And not a negative impact. [01:25:46] I know you do a lot of things because of what you don't see. [01:25:49] But what have been your biggest positive impact that you have had throughout your career? [01:25:59] Wow. [01:26:00] That is a great one. [01:26:03] Okay. [01:26:05] Well, here is a, I guess it's a good one, but it was also challenging, I guess, was when I had to leave an employer. [01:26:15] Right. [01:26:16] Right. [01:26:17] Um, and like, you know, like I said, I've shared my journey. [01:26:21] Um, a lot of times you experience a lot of unfairness. [01:26:25] And I think my biggest impact was being able to maintain my character. [01:26:32] And all of that, um, I had a director, VP level, uh, you know, person reach out to me very young in my career. [01:26:43] And she, you never know who's watching. [01:26:46] Um, that's, that's a funny thing. [01:26:48] You never know who's watching during times of conflict. [01:26:51] And for her to call me after I had left this organization and speak on my character in such a positive light, it, it, to know it can have that kind of effect and impact on other people. [01:27:06] And so, um, it really allowed me to want to hold on to that. [01:27:09] So, no matter what I, what challenges that I come across on, in any space that I'm in, I'll never let anyone take me out of character. [01:27:20] And I think that has been like the impact that I've left with those who I've encountered, um, regardless of what I've experienced, um, in these spaces. [01:27:31] And so, um, I think that's, that's one of the biggest thing in my careers. [01:27:41] Okay. I want to let you have that one. [01:27:43] I want to let you have it, even though you try to change it to a negative. [01:27:46] That's okay. [01:27:47] I want to let you have it. [01:27:48] Um, but yeah, I mean, I've done it so much, but I think that's probably the most memorable one for me. [01:27:57] Um, or the, I, or it impacted me the most, I guess. [01:28:01] Um, but yeah, I've done a ton of other stuff. [01:28:05] And of course that, you know, all things black girls and cyber as well. [01:28:08] Having that kind of impact is very, um, rewarding for me as well. [01:28:16] Awesome. [01:28:17] Um, go ahead. [01:28:18] Thomas. [01:28:19] Thomas. [01:28:20] No, I was just going to, uh, move over to Christopher Christopher, anything you want to ask Talia? [01:28:24] So, yes. [01:28:25] Yes. [01:28:26] Uh, I wanted to join the multiple question club. [01:28:28] So forgive me for hopping into the last minute. [01:28:30] Um, but Talia, you mentioned earlier that one of the things you're looking for with your organization is, you know, volunteers and allies. [01:28:36] Um, you mentioned, for example, people that can speak to red team experience. [01:28:40] Um, for those of us in the audience that may want to volunteer in that capacity, could you, uh, explain one more time how we can best get in contact with you and set those opportunities up? [01:28:51] Yes, absolutely. [01:28:52] Um, so partnerships at black girls in cyber.com. [01:28:57] And as I'm saying it, I am writing it in the group chat. [01:29:02] Um, so partnerships at black girls in cyber.com. [01:29:07] Um, and then we'll, what will happen next is we'll set up a call with a few board members and, um, I have a nice, we have a nice pretty presentation that we put together that has an outline of our programming, our five year goals and all the things that we're trying to do. [01:29:25] We're happy to share that so that, um, future partners can see how, where they can fit in all of that and how they can partner. [01:29:33] Um, and then we can set up a meeting and talk more about that. [01:29:40] Sounds great. [01:29:41] Thank you so much. [01:29:42] No, thank you. [01:29:46] Thanks, Christopher. [01:29:47] Thanks for hopping up on stage, uh, and asking that question. [01:29:51] Katie, you want to say something? [01:29:53] Go ahead, Katie. [01:29:54] I did just one final thought. [01:29:56] Um, I just loved it when, especially when Jennifer was on stage and talking about her pink hair. [01:30:01] Um, and then, you know, and Talia, what you said to me, it just, it makes such a big impression when you talk about, you know, being a, a, a mentor and, and putting yourself in a position to, to inspire people to, um, want to go into a, an industry they may not have. [01:30:17] And I just really appreciate that. [01:30:19] And, um, your transparency and your, um, your, what you shared tonight was just really meaningful. [01:30:23] It was just really meaningful to me and, and how you prioritize and answering Ryan's question. [01:30:27] These are more of my final thoughts. [01:30:28] Sorry, Tomas. [01:30:29] I know you have your final questions. [01:30:30] I'm just kind of giving mine now, but I really enjoyed this tonight. [01:30:33] And, um, as a person who I think is a little bit older than you, I loved what you had to say about your advice for your future self. [01:30:40] It really reminded me on a Wednesday evening to close my laptop when this is over and go spend a little time with my son and go, you know, maybe, uh, you know, think about how I'm going to wake up in the morning and do something for me. [01:30:51] Um, and not put everything else, you know, in, in front of that. [01:30:55] So just, there were a lot of things that you said from both a professional, um, uh, and a personal perspective tonight that I just really appreciate it. [01:31:02] And thank you so much for spending so much time with us tonight. [01:31:05] Yeah, absolutely. [01:31:06] Thank you guys for having me. [01:31:08] Thanks for that, Katie. [01:31:12] Any, any other final words, uh, mods before we kind of conclude? [01:31:22] All right. [01:31:23] So, Talia, I will ask you a question that I usually ask our guests. [01:31:27] Uh, actually, I'm not going to ask that question. [01:31:29] I do want to know, what are you reading? [01:31:31] I need to add some more books into my audible list. [01:31:33] What are you reading? [01:31:34] What's interesting to you? [01:31:36] Uh, you, the CISB, um, uh, for me, I'm going to ask you a question. [01:31:41] Uh, fifth hour? [01:31:43] Um, is it, uh, what's the, uh, study group? [01:31:46] I'm actually listening to an audible. [01:31:48] Um, so that is actually what I, nothing fun right now. [01:31:53] But if I was to say what my favorite book is, I would say it's called Quiet by Susan, um, Kane. [01:32:02] I would say that's probably like one of my favorite books. [01:32:06] But unfortunately, I'm not reading for fun at the moment. [01:32:10] All right. [01:32:11] All right. [01:32:13] So I will ask you then, you talked about advice for your future self. [01:32:19] I usually ask advice for your younger self. [01:32:22] You and, you and I, we're probably about the same age. [01:32:24] So let's just go with that. [01:32:27] Um, what's that piece of advice that, what's that one piece of advice that you would tell the younger you and why? [01:32:33] Younger me and why? [01:32:34] Um, I probably would just say, you know, um, everyone else is just trying to figure it out just like you, girl. [01:32:50] Uh, you are not alone. [01:32:55] So kind of own the journey. [01:32:57] Yeah. [01:32:58] So that's what I would tell my younger self. [01:33:00] Because, you know, it's so funny that when I was younger, you thought you were supposed to have it all figured out by 25. [01:33:09] And then 25 got here and boy, was I surprised. [01:33:14] And how much you don't know at 25. [01:33:17] Um, so I, I would just say to my younger self that everybody is trying to figure it out. [01:33:23] Um, and I realized that journey doesn't really change so much. [01:33:28] As you get older, um, you're always trying to figure it out and that's okay. [01:33:35] Love that. [01:33:39] Love that. [01:33:40] Completely agree. [01:33:41] All right. [01:33:42] Look, um, this, this brings us to the conclusion of our show. [01:33:48] Our show. [01:33:49] There's no game prizes here, but hopefully you go took away some really good, uh, notes and tips. [01:33:55] Some great insight, uh, from Talia this evening. [01:33:58] Uh, I will tell you or remind you all, uh, we do this every Wednesday. [01:34:02] So we'll be back here again next week, Wednesday, 8 PM Eastern time on 420. [01:34:06] April 20th. [01:34:08] For those who, uh, like to keep track of that numbers, numbering scheme. [01:34:12] Uh, so next week we have Tom Brennan. [01:34:14] Uh, most of, you know, Tom Brennan, if you don't join us back next week and find out a little bit more about Tom. [01:34:19] Uh, so moderators, I'll leave some final words for you. [01:34:22] Any, any final words before we get to Tom? [01:34:25] Tom Brennan, Thanks for taking the time and, you know, sharing a little bit of your journey. [01:34:33] I appreciate it. [01:34:34] And thanks for the insights. [01:34:35] Sure thing. [01:34:36] Thank you. [01:34:37] Yeah, we really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule. [01:34:41] Uh, your, your sort of, uh, nonprofit, your day job and everything else that you got going on in between. [01:34:54] Uh, completely understand, uh, the amount of work that you have and the demanding schedule that you have. [01:35:00] So really definitely appreciate you taking the time, uh, to spend with us. [01:35:04] Hopefully you got a lot out of this conversation because I know we all did and we enjoyed you being here. [01:35:10] Uh, Octavia, you want to say something? [01:35:12] No, I was just going to say, Talia knows like my heart's fluttering. [01:35:16] So I'm super excited for everything that you're doing in your career and just being you. [01:35:21] Right. [01:35:22] So this is my system. [01:35:23] I Yaddy. [01:35:24] So I love you. [01:35:25] Oh, I love you too. [01:35:26] Thank you. [01:35:27] Talia, I'll leave the final words for you and then we'll wrap. [01:35:31] Yes. [01:35:32] Thank you all so much. [01:35:33] Please connect with me on LinkedIn. [01:35:34] Um, you know, if you have any additional questions, I'm also on Twitter, uh, Talia Parker underscore [01:35:46] CO. [01:35:47] Um, yeah. [01:35:48] And I hope to kind of maintain, um, uh, you know, a connection with you guys as time's on. [01:35:54] I'm sure we'll all cross paths again. [01:35:56] Sounds good. [01:35:57] Thank you everybody for joining us. [01:35:58] Thank you. [01:35:59] Uh, we appreciate you all. [01:36:00] And if you want to hear the playback cause you missed something, it should be available [01:36:02] in a few minutes. [01:36:03] Thanks Talia. [01:36:04] Have a good one. [01:36:05] Bye everybody. [01:36:06] Bye. [01:36:07] Bye everybody. [01:36:08] Bye. [01:36:09] Bye everybody. [01:36:10] Bye. [01:36:11] Bye everybody. [01:36:13] Bye everybody.